The Afterlife

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I gotta get this off my chest.  What do you think happens to you after you die?  Do you think that *poof* that's it, "Game Over", and you're in the ground or urn?  Or do you believe you exist as a spiritual form afterward?  Or do you believe in reincarnation (I'd like to come back as Kiera Nightley's underwear!  ).  Some believe that the dead are in an unconscious state of existence, your spirit exists, but it's, "unconscious".  Some think that you're in a waiting room, like at the DMV, and the bureaucrats there are either suicide victims forced to work as civil servants in the afterlife, or dead people who have not committed suicide, but they are "volunteering" to help with the afterlife works, to shorten their waiting period.

I believe you still exist as a spiritual form.  There is another world.  Is there a bureaucracy?  Not really (Beetlejuice was an awesome move though ).  The Far East is big on that stuff.  They think there are no borders between the spirit world and our world.  Ghosts are an everyday part of life, to people of the Far East.  In northern Taiwan, there's believed to be a Valley, where the Dead have more Power, to influence over the living, according to ancient local legend. 

October, especially Halloween, to me, is when the borders of the living world and spirit world tend to..."Open", and the dead are allowed to....."visit" the living, though they are either under strict orders not to be too high profile about it, or they lack the ability to be too high profile about it.  The dead are sometimes allowed to visit certain living people they are connected with, through dreams, regardless of the time of the year.

Anyways, early Monday morning, before mom woke me and my dad up, she was in the shower in her bathroom, just off her bedroom, when she got out to hear her CD player and the CD in it playing.  She swears she had not turned on the CD player, dad was upstairs, still asleep, Cori wasn't in that room at all, she was still asleep, as was I.  The cats didn't touch it, they couldn't have  reached it on the shelf, but the player was on, and the disc spinning.  WTF?  Must be mischievous Halloween spirits at play.  "Boo!" >=]  Mom thought is might have been a neighbor's garage door remote, or a neighbor's TV remote, but then why would it turn on the CD player, AND cause the CD itself to play?  Wouldn't it have turned the CD player on, and then off? 

2 Years ago, when I was dating my [at the time] girlfriend, I spend Halloween at her house.  I slept on the bed in the den, and somebody came into the house.  My [then] girlfriend was upstairs, and we had the house mostly to ourselves, since her mom and sister were out, BUT...I heard the front door open and shut, clear as a bell.  I called out, and walked into the living room.  Nobody was there, so I thought.  I went back to sleep, and then I heard footsteps, and I saw a shadowy figure walk into the den.  I was so amazed, I couldn't take my eyes off of it, it was like seeing a deer up close...it turned and looked at me, then it disappeared, I think it turned towards the south wall, and walked through it, possibly towards the direction of the stairs, on the other side of that wall and to the left.  I went back to sleep.

My [then] girlfriend asked me "Did you come up to my room last night?".  I told her I hadn't.  She told me she had seen what I had seen, and heard what I had heard, before I had even told her.  We discussed the shadowy figure, the footsteps.  I remember the shape of the character's head, its height.  From those characteristics, she and I think it was my [then] girlfriend's deceased dad, who had passed away in 2002. 

I think Belinda visits me from time to time as well.  She visited me on and off throughout 2008, in my dreams, and IRL, throughout the spring, summer, and fall.  The winter was quiet though.  From time to time, I still hear a "bump", in the day and night, and I still hear or saw something I can't explain.  My grandma, whom I had never met, since she died 4 years before I was born, visited me a few times in my dreams.  I didn't realize who she was until after my dream was over and I woke up.  I recognized her from her personality my family described, and from old photographs.  She knew I would be born, and she also knew she wouldn't be around to see me.  She said this frequently throughout the 1970's, but no one believed her.  Then in the early '80's I came along.    My grandma was a very spiritual person, as was Belinda.

From time to time, I'd see Belinda, sitting on the edge of my bed.  I wasn't asleep, yet I wasn't awake.  It's that part of your life where you're not still asleep, but not yet awake.  My mom is in that state a lot, and she says I'll see it too when I'm older.  She sees people she knew and loved who have passed on that way, her parents, our old cat Groucho,  our other dearly departed and may others.  I myself have encountered the spirits of, not only friends or family, but our pets as well.  I've encountered them in dreams, and....in real life.  I was in my older sister's room, it was dark, and I heard her departed cat, Muffin, meowing at me.  I turned on the light.  Nobody there.  Spooky.  I saw my other sister's cat, Emily, on her bed, and then I did a double take, and she was gone.

I've seen and heard things for years, that I'm sure I wasn't meant to see, but I did, not that I mind.  Heck, it's quite exciting, actually.

I've had other spiritual sightings and encounters too.  All of them had the whole "Did that just really happen?" feeling to them.  Weird.  I do know, from experience, that ghosts usually do tend to avoid the living, when the living are actively looking for them.  Ghosts prefer to catch the living off guard.

[Sabre]

What are you asking about? Ghosts, Afterlife, Reincarnation?

Either way, while life after death is a good idea, there is no plausable way for it to work. If re-incarnation exsists, then there are a ton of issues of which the strongest one is that without memories the whole thing is moot.

[Xortberg]

What are you asking about? Ghosts, Afterlife, Reincarnation?

Either way, while life after death is a good idea, there is no plausable way for it to work. If re-incarnation exsists, then there are a ton of issues of which the strongest one is that without memories the whole thing is moot.

As far as I can tell, he's just asking for our general thoughts on life after death, regardless of whether it involves ghosts or reincarnation or if we believe we become meatballs in the great Flying Spaghetti Monster's bowl of awesomeness.

As for me, I dunno. I'd like to believe that there's an afterlife of some sort, although I don't really follow any religion specifically. The closest I get is Buddhism, and I don't know nearly enough about the subject to really say I'm a Buddhist. Once I learn more, maybe. Even then, though, I doubt I'd follow their concepts of an afterlife. Every theory I've heard just seems so horribly far-fetched to me, and there's no definitive proof that any sort of 'soul' even exists.

I can say for a fact that, as far as Christianity is concerned, I don't believe in Heaven. The concept itself, maybe, but in my pseudophilosophical contemplations, I've come to the conclusion that the Christian vision of Heaven can't truly exist. Of course, the Christian vision relies heavily on the Bible, which is an unreliable source as far as hard facts are concerned anyway, so a skewed concept is understandable.

Honestly, I can say that this is the one subject that has ever had me contemplating suicide. Not in the sense that I want to kill myself, since I love my life right now, but I've often wondered just what happens after you die and the only way to find out is to die. It was more of me deciding that if I were to kill myself, it would only be because I was really, really curious.

[Milkyway64]

Honestly, I can say that this is the one subject that has ever had me contemplating suicide. Not in the sense that I want to kill myself, since I love my life right now, but I've often wondered just what happens after you die and the only way to find out is to die. It was more of me deciding that if I were to kill myself, it would only be because I was really, really curious.

Natural selection at work, I says!

As far as my own thought go, I dunno. I just sort of seeing it happening like an eternal dream, like your consciousness "freezes" on it's last known activity. It's a really stupid thought, but death is one of those things no scientistcan document, seeing as, you know, they're dead. It boggles my mind too much to think about and not get frustrated.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

As far as I can tell, he's just asking for our general thoughts on life after death, regardless of whether it involves ghosts or reincarnation or if we believe we become meatballs in the great Flying Spaghetti Monster's bowl of awesomeness.

^ that's right.

[Robert Monroe]

I can say for a fact that, as far as Christianity is concerned, I don't believe in Heaven. The concept itself, maybe, but in my pseudophilosophical contemplations, I've come to the conclusion that the Christian vision of Heaven can't truly exist. Of course, the Christian vision relies heavily on the Bible, which is an unreliable source as far as hard facts are concerned anyway, so a skewed concept is understandable.

Well to be fair, Christian heaven is made out of metaphors, which are made out of more metaphors. If you -literally- beleive that there is a space castle city made of gold and precious gems, then you might need a reality check.

As for me, as a Christian I beleive in the concepts of Heaven and Hell. As for what they exactly, literally are, I could care less about. That's not important to me. Heaven could be a cardboard box city populated by hoboangels for all I care.

[CrypticQuery]

To be honest, I've never really put much thought into the subject .  My mindset is a more "I guess we'll find out when it happens".  Personally, I'd like to think that the after-life could become anything that you think it is.  But who knows, maybe we'll be subjected  to the horrors of eternally working in a McDonalds drive-thru with a crappy P.A. system .  Thanks for telling your tales Julius! :)

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Thanks for telling your tales Julius!

Thanks for reading them.

[Xortberg]

Well to be fair, Christian heaven is made out of metaphors, which are made out of more metaphors. If you -literally- beleive that there is a space castle city made of gold and precious gems, then you might need a reality check.

As for me, as a Christian I beleive in the concepts of Heaven and Hell. As for what they exactly, literally are, I could care less about. That's not important to me. Heaven could be a cardboard box city populated by hoboangels for all I care.

I'm not exactly talking about the exact physical specifications of Heaven as stated by the Bible. I understand that a large chunk of what is written in the Bible is metaphorical, if only because of the time period it was written in. I'm more talking about the concept of a paradise where all inhabitants coexist in harmony. I just don't think coexisting like that is possible, even in a place like Heaven. I could go into more detail, but I'm not entirely sure it'd be appropriate, so if you'd like to discuss it further, let me know.

[Robert Monroe]

I'm not exactly talking about the exact physical specifications of Heaven as stated by the Bible. I understand that a large chunk of what is written in the Bible is metaphorical, if only because of the time period it was written in. I'm more talking about the concept of a paradise where all inhabitants coexist in harmony. I just don't think coexisting like that is possible, even in a place like Heaven. I could go into more detail, but I'm not entirely sure it'd be appropriate, so if you'd like to discuss it further, let me know.

Well Heaven isn't physical either, we suppsedly won't be bound by human stupidity and stuff there.

Also animals more or less coexist harmoniously (maybe not peacefully, but harmoniously).

[Xortberg]

Well Heaven isn't physical either, we suppsedly won't be bound by human stupidity and stuff there.

Also animals more or less coexist harmoniously (maybe not peacefully, but harmoniously).

Maybe, but I'd rather fall back on the old "We can't possibly understand how it would work" idea. If I can't figure it out logically, I try to have it proven logically. And correct me if I'm wrong, for I'm far from a Biblical scholar, but isn't the basic premise of Heaven "Everyone lives forever and is perfectly happy?" Because I just don't see that happening. I know stating that if X has a chance to happen it will is some sort of fallacy, but we're also speaking in terms of the eternal here, so if there's even the smallest chance of some kind of conflict, I'm pretty sure it will take place over the course of infinity >_>

[Robert Monroe]

Maybe, but I'd rather fall back on the old "We can't possibly understand how it would work" idea. If I can't figure it out logically, I try to have it proven logically. And correct me if I'm wrong, for I'm far from a Biblical scholar, but isn't the basic premise of Heaven "Everyone lives forever and is perfectly happy?" Because I just don't see that happening. I know stating that if X has a chance to happen it will is some sort of fallacy, but we're also speaking in terms of the eternal here, so if there's even the smallest chance of some kind of conflict, I'm pretty sure it will take place over the course of infinity >_>

That's technically a misconception about Heaven. To my knowledge, the concept of Heaven is moreso togetherness with God, ala man before the fall. You can interpert -that- however you want, but to my knowledge the Bible doesn't directly say everything will be sunshine and lolipops. It is simply a paradise where there is now boundaries between man and God, so think of it as a GIANT FAMILY REUNION and every relative is awesome and rad.

[Xortberg]

That's technically a misconception about Heaven. To my knowledge, the concept of Heaven is moreso togetherness with God, ala man before the fall. You can interpert -that- however you want, but to my knowledge the Bible doesn't directly say everything will be sunshine and lolipops. It is simply a paradise where there is now boundaries between man and God, so think of it as a GIANT FAMILY REUNION and every relative is awesome and rad.

Ehh, maybe. I'll still use that argument whenever I'm mad trolling stupid, intolerant Facebook Christians.

[Robert Monroe]

Ehh, maybe. I'll still use that argument whenever I'm mad trolling stupid, intolerant Facebook Christians.

The problem is you are approaching the matter of heaven from a human, physical point of view. The entire concept of Heaven is a metaphysical one. Its not going to follow our rules. Now if it was a real, physical establishment, that'd be different, and you'd be justified in wondering how there is supposed to be NO PROBLEMS EVER, but its not.

And -that- all said, it never says there won't be "conflict" in Heaven, it just means we'll be one with God again. Even God got angry and had to cool His jets before, and heck fallen angels had to fall from -somewhere-, and they didn't even have sin. So yeah.

The Bible has waaaaaaay too many ways to look at things. Now you see why I just don't -worry- about it.

[Xortberg]

The problem is you are approaching the matter of heaven from a human, physical point of view. The entire concept of Heaven is a metaphysical one. Its not going to follow our rules. Now if it was a real, physical establishment, that'd be different, and you'd be justified in wondering how there is supposed to be NO PROBLEMS EVER, but its not.

The Bible has waaaaaaay too many ways to look at things. Now you see why I just don't -worry- about it.

I would very much like to major in philosophy or something, so worrying about it is something I like to do. Trying to think logically about the inherently illogical is a pretty fun challenge in my book.

As far as approaching it from a human point of view, yes, I do see the inherent problem in that. The thing is, this human point of view is all I have to work with. I like to try and understand things, and just saying "metaphysical concept" doesn't make me feel any better. It may be pointless to try and understand, but if I don't try, I'll never succeed, eh?

And -that- all said, it never says there won't be "conflict" in Heaven, it just means we'll be one with God again. Even God got angry and had to cool His jets before, and heck fallen angels had to fall from -somewhere-, and they didn't even have sin. So yeah.

You may know all that, but not all those idiots on Facebook do  :trollface:

[Robert Monroe]

I would very much like to major in philosophy or something, so worrying about it is something I like to do. Trying to think logically about the inherently illogical is a pretty fun challenge in my book.

As far as approaching it from a human point of view, yes, I do see the inherent problem in that. The thing is, this human point of view is all I have to work with. I like to try and understand things, and just saying "metaphysical concept" doesn't make me feel any better. It may be pointless to try and understand, but if I don't try, I'll never succeed, eh?

You may know all that, but not all those idiots on Facebook do 

I typically just accept mythical statement as hard fact. IE, you don't try and make sense of Norse mythology from the Greek mythology POV, and so on. What is physical and human is just that, and what is said about Christian mythology is just that. That isn't to say you can't analyze and disect it (hell that'd be boring, why else do you think there's so many sects?), but you can't approach it from a point of view that doesn't deal with the same issues. It'd be like trying to explain Risk using the rulebook from Mousetrap.

[Xortberg]

It'd be like trying to explain Risk using the rulebook from Mousetrap.

That sounds wicked fun. I'm totally doing that someday. I'll be sure to let you know how well it goes, too.

I typically just accept mythical statement as hard fact. IE, you don't try and make sense of Norse mythology from the Greek mythology POV, and so on. What is physical and human is just that, and what is said about Christian mythology is just that. That isn't to say you can't analyze and disect it (hell that'd be boring, why else do you think there's so many sects?), but you can't approach it from a point of view that doesn't deal with the same issues.

I sure as hell can!

To be honest, I can't stand the idea of just taking something as a hard fact like that. If I can't experience it myself or have it proven to me in some way, then I don't believe it. Same with ghosts and aliens. I would like to believe them, but they seem way too far-fetched, and until I can have some evidence, I'll go on happily not believing them. I actually rarely get into discussions like this one, since it makes me feel like I'm an ass who's forcing my own beliefs on someone else, but meh. This topic asked for it, so I delivered.

[Robert Monroe]

That sounds wicked fun. I'm totally doing that someday. I'll be sure to let you know how well it goes, too.

I sure as hell can!

To be honest, I can't stand the idea of just taking something as a hard fact like that. If I can't experience it myself or have it proven to me in some way, then I don't believe it. Same with ghosts and aliens. I would like to believe them, but they seem way too far-fetched, and until I can have some evidence, I'll go on happily not believing them. I actually rarely get into discussions like this one, since it makes me feel like I'm an ass who's forcing my own beliefs on someone else, but meh. This topic asked for it, so I delivered.

Fact is actually a poor word choice on my behalf. A better word would be "canon", similar to literature and cinema, but instead this is philosophy.

I personally never had this problem because I just enjoy seeing how other people beleive in things. As much as a logicwhore I am, I'm pretty accepting of other mythologies and shit. I'm a guy who keeps his mind open about possibilities, and as an individual I beleive in more than just physical existenses and human law (because when you really get down to it theres no "fact" for logic and reason either. Its just generally accepted standards that happen to be secular instead of spiritual), so I'm fairly open to a lot of things without having to go "PROOF DANGIT".

[Xortberg]

Fact is actually a poor word choice on my behalf. A better word would be "canon", similar to literature and cinema, but instead this is philosophy.

I personally never had this problem because I just enjoy seeing how other people beleive in things. As much as a logicwhore I am, I'm pretty accepting of other mythologies and shit. I'm a guy who keeps his mind open about possibilities, and as an individual I beleive in more than just physical existenses and human law (because when you really get down to it theres no "fact" for logic and reason either. Its just generally accepted standards that happen to be secular instead of spiritual), so I'm fairly open to a lot of things without having to go "PROOF DANGIT".

Either way, my point is still basically the same.

As for seeing how others believe, yeah, I love seeing that. I love other mythologies, especially from a creative standpoint, and I am open to pretty much anything in the sense that I will at any given point, no matter my history with something, give someone a chance to try and change my opinion on it. I don't even necessarily require proof - I suppose I chose my words poorly as well. I just need someone to be able explain why their belief is plausible. Aliens are the closest I come to believing in what could be classified as "supernatural," simply because they're more believable to me than ghosts and an afterlife and deities and all that.

(because when you really get down to it theres no "fact" for logic and reason either. Its just generally accepted standards that happen to be secular instead of spiritual)

Yeah, I do understand this. My logic, for example, is worlds apart from, say, Sabre's logic I even take that into account when I try and explain things, usually. I understand that my views won't just make sense, so I try to explain how my logic led me to my conclusions.

[Sarita]

If I think about stuff like this, I have a hard time sleeping xD So I try not to think about it. But I like to believe in the afterlife. I definitely believe in certain elements of the afterlife, based on my own experiences. (My family has a history of a"sixth sense" so to speak.)

It seems to me, based on that, that perhaps we stick around after death, waiting for reincarnation? I think a bureaucracy like in Beetlejuice would be hilarious.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

Well, this is how I see it:

I believe there is a spiritual realm that we wil meet once we are no longer of this earth and I am a true believer of ghosts/poltergeists/demonic possessions.  I know I haven't seen or physically come in contact with one, but I have a feeling I am going to come into contact with something paranormal one of these days, and I will NOT forget it for the rest of my life. 

If you don't believe in ghosts, then how in the hell do you explain the E.V.P's (Electronic Voice Phenominon) these people receive nowadays on their digital recorders or cam recorders?  If that's not enough, then why don't you go to a haunted area and see if you don't get the same thing (I know I should be one to talk since I haven't had any occurances whatsoever, but I am a VERY strong believer in this stuff).

[Xortberg]

If you don't believe in ghosts, then how in the hell do you explain the E.V.P's (Electronic Voice Phenominon) these people receive nowadays on their digital recorders or cam recorders?  If that's not enough, then why don't you go to a haunted area and see if you don't get the same thing (I know I should be one to talk since I haven't had any occurances whatsoever, but I am a VERY strong believer in this stuff).

I've seen several examples of EVP and such on shows that come on NatGeo, and although I've never been to a 'haunted' place or anything similar, my explanation is still the same: the power of suggestion.

One of the shows featuring EVPs was a skeptic show, and it played a selection of static from a recording. The static sounded like nothing but white noise. Then, they said to listen for the words "Help me." They played it again, and lo and behold, I heard it! Of course, it wasn't actually anyone saying that; it was just me looking for the words and hearing something that sounded vaguely similar. People will, to a certain extent, see or hear what they want to. That's why so many skeptics visit "haunted houses" where hundreds of people claim to have witnessed something paranormal and not feel, see, or hear anything. They didn't want to.

Now, can this work against something? Definitely. These haunted houses may in fact contain spirits or ghosts, and the people claiming to have the experiences are telling the truth while the skeptics simply chose not to acknowledge what they didn't believe existed. I tend to think the opposite, though. I think that the desire for something to be real can easily play tricks on the human mind.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Well, this is how I see it:

I believe there is a spiritual realm that we wil meet once we are no longer of this earth and I am a true believer of ghosts/poltergeists/demonic possessions.  I know I haven't seen or physically come in contact with one, but I have a feeling I am going to come into contact with something paranormal one of these days, and I will NOT forget it for the rest of my life. 

If you don't believe in ghosts, then how in the hell do you explain the E.V.P's (Electronic Voice Phenominon) these people receive nowadays on their digital recorders or cam recorders?  If that's not enough, then why don't you go to a haunted area and see if you don't get the same thing (I know I should be one to talk since I haven't had any occurances whatsoever, but I am a VERY strong believer in this stuff).

Me too, though I have seen AND physically come in contact with a spirit, amazingly enough.  She ran her fingers through my hair. 

I've also experienced EVP before, one example was this one time over my cell phone when I was talking to my [then] girlfriend, suddenly I heard someone whisper my name over the phone, through a static buzz, and I asked my [then] girlfriend why she whispered my name over the phone, and she didn't know what I was talking about.  I've also recorded a few things, too.

[DZComposer]

Afterlife is a bunch of hibbity-bibbity. There is no objective evidence of it, only anecdotal.  Psychology research is starting to shed light on those stories: They are mere figments of the mind:

nN3ggRgY7Ac

Why explain things using the will of mythical beings when the truth is far more fascinating.

[Robert Monroe]

Afterlife is a bunch of hibbity-bibbity. There is no objective evidence of it, only anecdotal.  Psychology research is starting to shed light on those stories: They are mere figments of the mind:

nN3ggRgY7Ac

Why explain things using the will of mythical beings when the truth is far more fascinating.

Explain things? This is a topic about the concept of an afterlife, not superstitions on the real world. We can talk about fvkcing magnets and how they work in another thread.

Afterlife is a concept. A notion of the mind. It's a person's own beleifs rooted in their own spirituality and whatnot. "Figment of the mind" is a misleading term, because in that regard you can pretty much label anything as a figment, like the senses. Yes underneath it all there is probably some crazy-awesome chemical reactons going on, but what does that matter to most common people who base things on what they personally perceive?

In the end, with that way of thinking, everything is just matter and reactions. And while that is indeed fascinating, it isn't paticularly enlightening. Its just the factual hows of why we do things. The eternal vying for the question of "why" is still there, and can never be answered with objective evidence.