Alright, you furries. This is it. Prove that Krystal isn't a cardboard character

[Sabre]

ANyone can Rp her perfectly beacuse her personality is that of wet cardboard. Its her lack of defining traits and personality that have people wondering just how she got so popular. hell, sally from The adventures of Sonic the hedgehog is a better charecter than krystal.How come she isnt as popular?

Erm, she is. That's why Sally has the nick name "Face that launched a thousand furries".

Beat me to it.

How to RP Krystal:

Be polite

Laugh/giggle occasionally

Rage at injustice

Everything else is totally blank and up to whatever you want to do.

Right, but you were implying that the lead was instantly a sue. A really good example of a mary sue in a relatively recent game is Judith, from Tales of Vesperia. She's the typical lancer who wears what amounts to underwear + a cape-thing. This isn't uncommon in fantasy, but it does raise a few questions in some scenes, where she seems to pull exactly what the party needs out of nowhere. Party needs a ladder? In comes Judith with one in hand! Need a map? Judith's got ya covered? Need to communicate with monsters? Judith's your (wo)man.  Need history on any given location that wasn't already supplied by the human library princess? Heeeere's Judith! Need another ladder? Guess who.

Even her faults were played to just making her character more "perfect." She did all this as a relatively unimportant side character. She could have been replaced by a convoy the dog dragged around full of Rita's inventions and very little of the plot would have had to be rewritten. This is a sue. The main character overcoming odds, even if the bad guy should have won, is a different sort of category. As Kursed pointed out, Superman had moments where we was losing even if the writers only did so in order to not make everything so one sided. Judith, as my memory serves, never had any moment where she was anything less "in charge" outside of gameplay related failures.

Others, like Mario, aren't characters so much as they are avatars for a game. Samus falls under this, too. Pre Other M, she isn't a character so much as she is the embodiment of the player exploring a vast planet bombing every time in search of hidden secrets. Mario isn't his own guy so much as he is the player jumping through levels and having fun as well as Nintendo's money machine. They are videogame characters in their most basic form, whereas cartoon, comic, and more literative characters in general have to have something a little more.

My last post on the issue, as if you don't get it by the end of this post then you will have confirmed my belief.

My implication was that any lead character is a mary sue, rather any competent character. You example of always having handy tools at hand, that fills the definition of XR from buzz lightyear. A sarcastic robot that was designed in such a way as to basicly act as a gadget locker and story wise to provide props for the jokes. Buzz Lightyear is also a Mary Sue as he is flawless as well. The exceptions you mention are just special pleading. You are also playing a No True Scotsman card. Remember a mary sue is "a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader." Therefor, you are wrong in that every character mentioned falls under that definition, and you are making excuses.

Else, you are either trolling or don't know what you are talking about.

[Milkyway64]

My implication was that any lead character is a mary sue, rather any competent character. You example of always having handy tools at hand, that fills the definition of XR from buzz lightyear. A sarcastic robot that was designed in such a way as to basicly act as a gadget locker and story wise to provide props for the jokes. Buzz Lightyear is also a Mary Sue as he is flawless as well.

Because Buzz Lightyear is a child's toy in a fictional universe. He's SUPPOSED to be charismatic and totally unaware that he, relatively, isn't anything beyond a hunk of plastic. Or are you talking about that cartoon that is his in-universe origins and thus the source of his behavior in Toy Story?

Doesn't really sound much like a sue to me, so what's the proble-

The exceptions you mention are just special pleading. You are also playing a No True Scotsman card. Remember a mary sue is "a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader." Therefor, you are wrong in that every character mentioned falls under that definition, and you are making excuses.

Else, you are either trolling or don't know what you are talking about.

Ooooohhhh. You're arguing technicalities. What with the whole Mary Sue thing being largely subjective and that different people can find different character Sues. (Yeah, it doesn't have a solid definition, so that fancy quoted part explaining what one is needs a source and a damn good one, otherwise it remains writer lingo like it always has been.) Sabre, maybe you forgot, but singling out one crack in the brick doesn't really answer anything in the topic. This thread isn't to search for evidence of depth in Krystal's character, not repeatedly argue the lack of such in every other character ever. As a matter of fact, i don't even think the term "Mary Sue" came up in this topic until later on.

Also way to go on intentionally ignoring any part of my previous post just so you could point your finger and pretend you've got something going.

[Sarita]

Milkshake, I think you're upsetting people. Tone down the rude comments, keep to your logical argument.

[DZComposer]

I like how the discussion has turned to Mary Sues when there isn't enough character background on Krystal to even determine if she is on.

I think the point about her being a physically attractive female character who wears skimpy and/or tight clothing being a major part of her popularity has merit.

If what few personality traits she had remained the same, but she were introduced wearing a SF64-Style Star Fox uniform, complete with heavy jacket, that didn't hug her figure and amplify her feminine structure, would she be as popular?

How popular was Samus as a character before the introduction of the Zero Suit?

Would Laura Croft had been as popular if she were flat-chested?

Would any of these characters be popular if they weighed 300lbs?

[Vy'drach]

Maybe not to the masses, but not every person likes Krystal because of sexual attraction. Never liked Lara Croft, mostly because of how "sexy" she is considered. Personally I'd prefer a SF64 style costume for Krystal (or perhaps some heavy combat armour).

[Milkyway64]

Never liked Lara Croft, mostly because of how "sexy" she is considered.

Which is kind of hypocrisy, seeing you like Krystal.

I like how the discussion has turned to Mary Sues when there isn't enough character background on Krystal to even determine if she is on.

I think the point about her being a physically attractive female character who wears skimpy and/or tight clothing being a major part of her popularity has merit.

If what few personality traits she had remained the same, but she were introduced wearing a SF64-Style Star Fox uniform, complete with heavy jacket, that didn't hug her figure and amplify her feminine structure, would she be as popular?

How popular was Samus as a character before the introduction of the Zero Suit?

Would Laura Croft had been as popular if she were flat-chested?

Would any of these characters be popular if they weighed 300lbs?

Of course not, and of course not. That's the point I'm trying to make here. Sex appeal does not equal character of the decade material.

As for that first line, that's what I was getting at with this:

This thread isn't to search for evidence of depth in Krystal's character, not repeatedly argue the lack of such in every other character ever. As a matter of fact, i don't even think the term "Mary Sue" came up in this topic until later on.

Milkshake, I think you're upsetting people. Tone down the rude comments, keep to your logical argument.

I wasn't aware, mostly because my PM box is empty and thus I was left in the dark until they sent you. D=

[Kursed]

I like how the discussion has turned to Mary Sues when there isn't enough character background on Krystal to even determine if she is on.

I think the point about her being a physically attractive female character who wears skimpy and/or tight clothing being a major part of her popularity has merit.

If what few personality traits she had remained the same, but she were introduced wearing a SF64-Style Star Fox uniform, complete with heavy jacket, that didn't hug her figure and amplify her feminine structure, would she be as popular?

How popular was Samus as a character before the introduction of the Zero Suit?

Would Laura Croft had been as popular if she were flat-chested?

Would any of these characters be popular if they weighed 300lbs?

like?

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/Vixen2005/Krystal/Paths%20of%20Fate%20Krystal/Krystal_Outfit_5.jpg

Which one looks better as far as clothes.

personLy I like Krystal or Kursed in less revealing clothes.

[The Green Fox]

there actually just aren't enough lead female characters, period.

problem explained.

Thank you, Green Fox.

[Kursed]

there actually just aren't enough lead female characters, period.

problem explained.

Thank you, Green Fox.

But Krystal is not a lead character Fox is Krystal is just a Secondary character.

Krystal is No more a lead Character than Tails is in the old mega drive games.

[Vy'drach]

Which is kind of hypocrisy, seeing you like Krystal.

Try to get this through your thick head. I do not have any sexual interest in Krystal, nor do I like her because some find her "sexy."

I really couldn't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about your opinion really, but it's gone beyond being slightly entertaining to mildly irritating. You don't know everything, especially not when it comes to others' opinions or interests.

[ballisticwaffles]

[Milkyway64]

Try to get this through your thick head. I do not have any sexual interest in Krystal, nor do I like her because some find her "sexy."

I really couldn't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about your opinion really, but it's gone beyond being slightly entertaining to mildly irritating. You don't know everything, especially not when it comes to others' opinions or interests.

Over react much? Flame much? Troll much?

Never liked Lara Croft, mostly because of how "sexy" she is considered.

Look at this statement. Look at it. Process every word.

Notice how they form the idea that you do not like Lara Croft simply because she is a sex icon.

Now consider Krystal and what she is, and your opinion of her. I pointed out a little contradiction, not attacked you like you blatantly did just now.

[Vy'drach]

Look at this statement. Look at it. Process every word.

Notice how they form the idea that you do not like Lara Croft simply because she is a sex icon.

Now consider Krystal and what she is, and your opinion of her. I pointed out a little contradiction, not attacked you like you blatantly did just now.

I said I don't like Lara Croft mostly because she is a sex icon, not entirely, there is a difference. Tomb Raider as a game series was always boring to me, and Lara Croft always irritated me, which was amplified by everyone always freaking out about how "hot" she was. I never said I dislike characters just because they are attractive to a lot of people. I won't lie, that happens more often than not, but it's not a rule, and there are exceptions, Krystal being one of them. Main reason I like Krystal despite her lustful fanbase is because I enjoy the Star Fox game series, and Krystal's character doesn't annoy me to no end, unlike Lara Croft, unlike Bloodrayne, unlike Tifa, and many others.

And the reason I said what I did is because you usually get all "rawr rawr raw blah blah blah" about it, end up calling me a liar for saying I have no sexual interest in Krystal (which in itself would be a personal attack), when you don't know anything about me, so you are just assuming out your ass, and working under the belief that you just happen to be right (which is why I said you don't know everything).

Trying to save you the wasted effort and me the slight irritation, because while your opinion honestly doesn't mean anything to me, it has stopped being mildly interesting every time you call me a liar, and is becoming irritating.

[Milkyway64]

That post is in two distinctly different halves. Addressing the first:

I said I don't like Lara Croft mostly because she is a sex icon, not entirely, there is a difference. Tomb Raider as a game series was always boring to me, and Lara Croft always irritated me, which was amplified by everyone always freaking out about how "hot" she was. I never said I dislike characters just because they are attractive to a lot of people. I won't lie, that happens more often than not, but it's not a rule, and there are exceptions, Krystal being one of them. Main reason I like Krystal despite her lustful fanbase is because I enjoy the Star Fox game series, and Krystal's character doesn't annoy me to no end, unlike Lara Croft, unlike Bloodrayne, unlike Tifa, and many others.

As far as the original topic is concerned, this answers nothing and is in essence a shrug and confused voice saying "...I just like her I guess."

Now the second half:

And the reason I said what I did is because you usually get all "rawr rawr raw blah blah blah" about it, end up calling me a liar for saying I have no sexual interest in Krystal (which in itself would be a personal attack), when you don't know anything about me, so you are just assuming out your ass, and working under the belief that you just happen to be right (which is why I said you don't know everything).

Trying to save you the wasted effort and me the slight irritation, because while your opinion honestly doesn't mean anything to me, it has stopped being mildly interesting every time you call me a liar, and is becoming irritating.

Hey look, an attack and overtly angry exaggeration. Please show where I called you a liar as opposed to just pointing out a majority.

[Thu'um]

Try to get this through your thick head. I do not have any sexual interest in Krystal, nor do I like her because some find her "sexy."

You and me are on the same boat!  He just can't handle the fact.

That post is in two distinctly different halves. Addressing the first:

As far as the original topic is concerned, this answers nothing and is in essence a shrug and confused voice saying "...I just like her I guess."

Now the second half:

Hey look, an attack and overtly angry exaggeration. Please show where I called you a liar as opposed to just pointing out a majority.

way to avoid the the statements 

[Milkyway64]

I addressed them ages ago. They have nothing to do with her character and it's still a cosmetic attraction. He stated earlier it was her voice and her eyes that intrigued him, also known as physical attraction which is in the same general boat as sexual attraction.

[Thu'um]

I addressed them ages ago. They have nothing to do with her character and it's still a cosmetic attraction. He stated earlier it was her voice and her eyes that intrigued him, also known as physical attraction which is in the same general boat as sexual attraction.

Right because every man is attracted to Morgan Freeman 'cause of his voice. 

[ballisticwaffles]

Right because every man is attracted to Morgan Freeman 'cause of his voice. 

i am. Seriously, that man has a voice of the gods.

But enought about my private life, these skirting of the issue comments and blatent Ad homenim attacks only prolong the fact of this thred. Theat krystal is popular beacuse she is the sex appeal, not becuase she is well writtan.

[Thu'um]

But enought about my private life, these skirting of the issue comments and blatent Ad homenim attacks only prolong the fact of this thred. Theat krystal is popular beacuse she is the sex appeal, not becuase she is well writtan.

not gonna argue. But that doesn't mean all of her fans are attracted to her, and that she isn't a good character

[Milkyway64]

Alright, then let's ask this. Fan of Dante? Maybe Cloud? Link or Mario even? If yes to any of them I bet it's not in the same way you are of Krystal, now is it.

It's blatant attraction and all of you saying "IT'S NOT BECAUSE SHE'S AN ATTRACTIVE GIRL IN A BIKINI." haven't proven anything or even taken Vindr's challenge earlier. You're literally just screaming the same baseless thing over and over and over and over in a topic looking for evidence. Your constant hammering in that it's not your young adult male minds WOULD be believable and valid if it wasn't the only thing you've said so far.

[Sabre]

there actually just aren't enough lead female characters, period.

problem explained.

Thank you, Green Fox.

Hahaha. Exclaimation mark. Next you will bring up the blachel test. Full stop.

[Robert Monroe]

I think the points flying around in here like mud is this: some of you all despite all odds do like Krystal for more than just her assets (lolass).

However, you are a minority as most like Krystal for these assets, and furthermore, this does not make her any less cardboard, which is stated in plain damn text in the thread title.

[Thu'um]

Alright, then let's ask this. Fan of Dante? Maybe Cloud? Link or Mario even? If yes to any of them I bet it's not in the same way you are of Krystal, now is it.

It's blatant attraction and all of you saying "IT'S NOT BECAUSE SHE'S AN ATTRACTIVE GIRL IN A BIKINI." haven't proven anything or even taken Vindr's challenge earlier. You're literally just screaming the same baseless thing over and over and over and over in a topic looking for evidence. Your constant hammering in that it's not your young adult male minds WOULD be believable and valid if it wasn't the only thing you've said so far.

First, who the heck are all thoas people up there ^ cause i don't know.

OHHHH MYYYYY FREAKING GOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!! (excuse my french )

Why can't u just admit that not every one likes krystal for being an attractive character? You just can't seem to be able to grasp that, and there for seems very one sided.

However, you are a minority as most like Krystal for these assets, and furthermore, this does not make her any less cardboard, which is stated in plain damn text in the thread title.

Your absoultly right! I agree to some exstant. If more then a few people can like her for more than her assest (good one) how could she be totaly card board?

[Xortberg]

First, who the heck are all thoas people up there ^ cause i don't know.

Mario: You know, Mario? THE gaming icon?

Cloud: Protagonist of FF7

Dante: Main character in Devil May Cry

Link: Again, I shouldn't have to explain this.

Your absoultly right! I agree to some exstant. If more then a few people can like her for more than her assest (good one) how could she be totaly card board?

Because these assets are completely stock, and can be found on any single character who even comes close to the same role as Krystal. Perhaps cardboard is a bad way to put it; she is, instead, a completely bare skeleton of a character, with no actual body to speak of.

[ballisticwaffles]

You know what? Tell us exactly why krystal is more interesting than watching paint dry. Besides her fine Chesticles. Anybody, please enlighten me.