Enough is enough

[Tiberius]

He said "Yeah, whatever." with no rebuttal to anything. He quite didn't.

For having the gall to make a complaint topic about me, you sure are lacking in things to complain about, aren't you?

DZ sums it up nicely. Nothing bad has been going on, it's just some people here need to toughen up a little more. Letting the smallest things get you lead to this.

Initially this was about the staff handling things. Not you. Don't try to antagonize me, because it won't work.

When it comes to toughening up, some of us here don't have that much self control. Why is it that you don't realize that? Why can't you have some respect? I would much appreciate an honest answer than some more smart mouthing.

[Kursed]

Again.

Understood.

Here is my advice for you milky.

Don't bring people down because they enjoy talking with people Just like you did to Onewinged. Some people are very emotinal and you don't need to help those individuals flush their life down the drain. The reason Onewinged was brought down by that roleplay being shut down was because he felt that his whole history had been simply erased since he spent alot of time there.(Done)

[Tiberius]

Here is my advice for you milky. Don't bring people down because they enjoy talking with people Just like you did to Onewinged.

Adding to that, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

Again.

Understood.

There are some trolls here on this site that want these:

Respect

Toughness

Putting others down

Seems to me you qualifiy yourself as a troll right now. Remember that PM you sent me back at KLA? What do you call that? You call that 'Listen to my opinion, I don't care what yours is, I'm always right'? Sounds like it.

[Milkyway64]

Here is my advice for you milky. Don't bring people down because they enjoy talking with people Just like you did to Onewinged. Some people are very emotinal and you don't need to help those individuals flush their life down the drain. The reason Onewinged was brought down by that roleplay being shut down was because he felt that his whole history had been simply erased since he spent alot of time there.

Adding to that, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Because as adults, I expect you guys to be able to function. AJC is a kid and he takes things in stride better than you guys. Have I mentioned I love that little guy?

As for smartmouthing, I ask the same back. None of you since my post has given a single reason to anything, just one lined drama inciters.

There are some trolls here on this site that want these:

Respect

Toughness

Logic

Seems to me you qualifiy yourself as a troll right now. Remember that PM you sent me back at KLA? What do you call that? You call that 'Listen to my opinion, I don't care what yours is, I'm always right'? Sounds like it.

Because what I did on another site has a lot to do with what I did here. What, so I'm a troll on AM2R's forum now too because I hunt Krystal fanboys on a totally unrelated community?

That said, what I said there had a lot to do with personal experience over dozens of people. I'm pretty sure it was a psychologically right as it gets, and if not, why not, you know, ignore it?

[DZComposer]

While I understand that not everyone has a strong ability to resist being offended, it would be unfair to others to use that as an excuse to tell people they can't say things that are only minorly offensive. That makes it impossible to have discussion.

I understand that Milky, Rob, and Xort have been a little bit crass lately, and they should ease off of it, but they have just as much right to speak their opinion, and defend it, as you do.

[Kursed]

Because as adults, I expect you guys to be able to function. AJC is a kid and he takes things in stride better than you guys. Have I mentioned I love that little guy?

As for smartmouthing, I ask the same back. None of you since my post has given a single reason to anything, just one lined drama inciters.

Because what I did on another site has a lot to do with what I did here. What, so I'm a troll on AM2R's forum now too because I hunt Krystal fanboys on a totally unrelated community?

That said, what I said there had a lot to do with personal experience over dozens of people. I'm pretty sure it was a psychologically right as it gets, and if not, why not, you know, ignore it?

We don't need your help you are not our parents, teacher, etc.

While I understand that not everyone has a strong ability to resist being offended, it would be unfair to others to use that as an excuse to tell people they can't say things that are only minorly offensive. That makes it impossible to have discussion.

I understand that Milky, Rob, and Xort have been a little bit crass lately, and they should ease off of it, they have just as much right to speak their opinion, and defend it, as you do.

May i suggest that they speak their opinion and defend it in a less Rude manner?

[Icy]

This is exactly what wasn't supposed to happen with this topic.

Milkyway, you aren't even a moderator, stop acting like one. And don't ask me to tell you where you're "acting like one", you know where, and that would take a while to quote each part of each post. But if you must know, tell me.

DZ, I respect you plenty, and I don't think you screwed this up at all.

I realize that you need moderators, I realize both sides of every story need to be looked at closely to get the right solution.

Sometimes both sides are not looked at closely enough. And one side gets left in the dark. That dark side is like seeing your house go up in flames with all your belongings inside. Nothing you can do, but just watch, and walk away.

I just think that if we all stopped posting what pops into our heads and actually THINKED before we post a long, drawn-out post, this forum AND topic might be a better place. If you have a beef with someone, Xort or Milky, Mr. N, anyone, take it to PMs, not in a topic that is supposed to be answered by moderators/Admins.

For what it's worth, I think Xort was a little harsh in the DRL ordeal. Not that DRL wasn't harsh back. He had a right to be. And then Xort was harsh right back again, as he had a right to be, too, after that.

A good way to end this all is to stop thinking about it, listen to some people's ideas, and do what needs to be done. Keep quiet and maybe in a few months the tension will wear off and whatever the members wanted that got taken from them will come back, if people agree kindly in a topic like this.

In the future. Talking about the subject now only..."feeds the trolls". Or more accurately, "feeds the drama".

Just shut up with all the opinions and let it clear away so we all can breathe and think clearly again. And let the topic resurface then.

There's no reason to be angry about any of this, you can talk through this nicely.

[Tiberius]

Looks like this has boiled down some. Is the point being made, staff? Or do we need more evidence?

Clearly this is looking like a matter of respect when it comes to the matter being questioned, and the staff ignoring the amount of disrespect being displayed toward some members from the same people over and over again.

The only person in question yet to speak I think is Robert Monroe.

Let it be known that this topic was not meant initially to root out people. But I somewhat thought it was going to happen anyway.

[Xortberg]

For what it's worth, I think Xort was a little harsh in the DRL ordeal. Not that he wasn't harsh back. He had a right to be.

Also keep in mind there's an entire hour's worth of PMs that you haven't seen >_>

[Scott7]

Because what I did on another site has a lot to do with what I did here.

You weren't here at the time but yes, A person here can get banned over chat in other areas. Around the same month a came here a user Named Matt was permabanned over a chat in DA which including alot abusive language like the words you've been using in this thread... (discluding the death threats of course)

[Tiberius]

Also keep in mind there's an entire hour's worth of PMs that you haven't seen >_>

It would be much appreciated if you didn't post those, we already have enough examples as it is. Thank you for noting that though.

[Milkyway64]

We don't need your help.

And I don't need this topic, but hey.

This is exactly what wasn't supposed to happen with this topic.

Milkyway, you aren't even a moderator, stop acting like one. And don't ask me to tell you where you're "acting like one", you know where, and that would take a while to quote each part of each post. But if you must know, tell me.

DZ, I respect you plenty, and I don't think you screwed this up at all.

I'm not even going to ask, but rather point out I haven't BEEN acting like one. I've been defending myself. Flattering to know that in doing so I give the vibe of authority though.

I just think that if we all stopped posting what pops into our heads and actually THINKED before we post a long, drawn-out post, this forum AND topic might be a better place. If you have a beef with someone, Xort or Milky, Mr. N, anyone, take it to PMs, not in a topic that is supposed to be answered by moderators/Admins.

For what it's worth, I think Xort was a little harsh in the DRL ordeal. Not that he wasn't harsh back. He had a right to be.

A good way to end this all is to stop thinking about it, listen to some people's ideas, and do what needs to be done. Keep quiet and maybe in a few months the tension will wear off and whatever the members wanted that got taken from them will come back, if people agree kindly in a topic like this.

In the future. Talking about the subject now only..."feeds the trolls". Or more accurately, "feeds the drama".

Just shut up with all the opinions and let it clear away so we all can breathe and think clearly again. And let the topic resurface then.

There's no reason to be angry about any of this, you can talk through this nicely.

I do think before I post. Always have, always will. This apparently will never be settled if it goes unanswered, see Julius and the fact that a lot of people are specifically calling the staff out for not doing/doing a bad job.

Looks like this has boiled down some. Is the point being made, staff? Or do we need more evidence?

Clearly this is looking like a matter of respect when it comes to the matter being questioned, and the staff ignoring the amount of disrespect being displayed toward some members from the same people over and over again.

The only person in question yet to speak I think is Robert Monroe.

Let it be known that this topic was not meant initially to root out people. But I somewhat thought it was going to happen anyway.

...What evidence? You mean

...whatever.

and

I see alot of wrong in that post.

That evidence?

You weren't here at the time but yes, A person here can get banned over chat in other areas. Around the same month a came here a user Named Matt was permabanned over a chat in DA which including alot abusive language like the words you've been using in this thread... (discluding the death threats of course)

The DEATH THREATS WERE THE REASON. How does language even COMPARE? What were you THINKING with this post? "Oh yeah, Matt got banned somewhere for doing what you did IN THIS TOPIC... oh, except the FUCKING DEATH THREATS, I guess, but those don't matter."

[Guest Mr. Mario]

Because what I did on another site has a lot to do with what I did here. What, so I'm a troll on AM2R's forum now too because I hunt Krystal fanboys on a totally unrelated community?

That said, what I said there had a lot to do with personal experience over dozens of people. I'm pretty sure it was a psychologically right as it gets, and if not, why not, you know, ignore it?

You know whenever I have to read your long list of reasons why *Insert drama* has started and you want all of us to follow it and just forgive you for what we did, I'm just going to pretend it never existed, even if it involved me and I will always reply with a "Yeah whatever..."

You may be a mod at KLA but here at SF-O, you are NOT a mod, quit acting like the admin of this site. You can't tell us what to do and you don't scare me at all. Go on and cry me a river while you can, think of some better excuses too. I'm waiting for one.

[Xortberg]

It would be much appreciated if you didn't post those, we already have enough examples as it is. Thank you for noting that though.

I can't post them without an admin's permission anyway, since DRL himself isn't here to let me. And yeah, it was just a note. Like DZ said, there's more sides to an argument than what's apparent.

[Kursed]

And I don't need this topic, but hey.

I'm not even going to ask, but rather point out I haven't BEEN acting like one. I've been defending myself. Flattering to know that in doing so I give the vibe of authority though.

I do think before I post. Always have, always will. This apparently will never be settled if it goes unanswered, see Julius and the fact that a lot of people are specifically calling the staff out for not doing/doing a bad job.

...What evidence? You mean

and

That evidence?

The DEATH THREATS WERE THE REASON. How does language even COMPARE? What were you THINKING with this post? "Oh yeah, Matt got banned somewhere for doing what you did IN THIS TOPIC... oh, except the FUCKING DEATH THREATS, I guess, but those don't matter."

I've bolded out what I find offencive and I've also underlined a word I find really offensive. And stop brining down One wigned.

[Tiberius]

Milkyway, its not helping.

Xort, like I said, it's not primarily you. Actually , you haven't been a problem lately.

[Milkyway64]

You know whenever I have to read your long list of reasons why *Insert drama* has started and you want all of us to follow it and just forgive you for what we did, I'm just going to pretend it never existed, even if it involved me and I will always reply with a "Yeah whatever..."

You may be a mod at KLA but here at SF-O, you are NOT a mod, quit acting like the admin of this site. You can't tell us what to do and you don't scare me at all. Go on and cry me a river while you can, think of some better excuses too. I'm waiting for one.

So you just admitted to not reading anything and your only purpose in this thread is to egg me on and troll.

Again, I haven't acted like anything other than me defending myself. I did give reasons but you just admitted to not reading them so that's your problem, buddy.

["User"]

.....

I can't believe all this started as SOON as I left for work and I was helpless to reply to the posts as they went along. I was following the topic at work over my phone but my phone is too slow to really post (let alone quote)  I know I promised you guys my thoughts on pretty much every single point that was brought up but after a 12+ hour work and considering this topic I'm sure will continue into the night it seems that it would be, IMO for the moment, a futile effort.

Needless to say however, I'm saddened by the way this has turned out and after looking back on what some other people have said concerning my ability to moderate and other accusations concerning myself (some which are completely true and others just flat out misconceptions) I've honestly lost the drive to post a massive rebuttal (atm at least) defending myself against slander but also admitting times where I've been wrong and how I could have handled situations differently. 

I'm sure some of you guys know this but, like DZ, I have a full time job which involves me working 8-12 hour days during the week and my weekends a lot of the time are typically spend outside the house with friends, at bars, seeing movies/events etc. This has especially been the case recently and I really mean it when I say I want to try and devote more time to SF-O.  Real life has gotten in the way a LOT recently and, some things need to take more priority than others.

As far as improvement is concerned, I agree with ALL the suggestions that OneWingedAngel proposed (on page 2 or 3?), especially the one's concerning more mods but these mods might control 1 or 2 sections of the board or more if said sections aren't active.  I'm also confidence that you guys have put other good suggestions into this thread and I promise I'll look them when I get in a break in my really stress filled life at the moment.

Modding (especially on a very active forum) isn't nearly as easy as you guys might perceive it to be.  It's not as simple as just shutting down "trollish" behavior, which can also easily be see as a legit argument instead and not nearly something like a flame war - it's about trying to see both sides of the story and try to see the truth "in the middle.  A mod/admin can't be a complete hardass with the rules because then he/she will be seen as an unlikable power hungry individual who makes life no fun for any of the members.  On the other side of the coin, a mod/admin can't be too lax because then people might complaint about stuff that is going on and get the idea that mods/admins don't give a shit and are favoring other people.  Ideally it should be a balance but I can assure all of you I DO talk to these troublemakers via PM or msn but I do NOT LIKE publicly chastising individuals.  So don't get the idea that I don't talk to these people and tell them to STFU, because I do - just not publicly for all of SF-O to see.

That being said, maybe it's time for me to break tradition here for once.... 

Milkyway64, please right now for sake of this topic, STFU I've giving you a 15% warning and one more outburst from you it will be doubled. 

Xort, DZ already told you this but please....chill.

Kursed, Mr. Nintendo, you guys got warnings as well.  Your behavior is unacceptable as well

[Kursed]

.....

I can't believe all this started as SOON as I left for work and I was helpless to reply to the posts as they went along. I was following the topic at work over my phone but my phone is too slow to really post (let alone quote)  I know I promised you guys my thoughts on pretty much every single point that was brought up but after a 12+ hour work and considering this topic I'm sure will continue into the night it seems that it would be, IMO for the moment, a futile effort.

Needless to say however, I'm saddened by the way this has turned out and after looking back on what some other people have said concerning my ability to moderate and other accusations concerning myself (some which are completely true and others just flat out misconceptions) I've honestly lost the drive to post a massive rebuttal (atm at least) defending myself against slander but also admitting times where I've been wrong and how I could have handled situations differently. 

I'm sure some of you guys know this but, like DZ, I have a full time job which involves me working 8-12 hour days during the week and my weekends a lot of the time are typically spend outside the house with friends, at bars, seeing movies/events etc. This has especially been the case recently and I really mean it when I say I want to try and devote more time to SF-O.  Real life has gotten in the way a LOT recently and, some things need to take more priority than others.

As far as improvement is concerned, I agree with ALL the suggestions that OneWingedAngel proposed (on page 2 or 3?), especially the one's concerning more mods but these mods might control 1 or 2 sections of the board or more if said sections aren't active.  I'm also confidence that you guys have put other good suggestions into this thread and I promise I'll look them when I get in a break in my really stress filled life at the moment.

Modding (especially on a very active forum) isn't nearly as easy as you guys might perceive it to be.  It's not as simple as just shutting down "trollish" behavior, which can also easily be see as a legit argument instead and not nearly something like a flame war - it's about trying to see both sides of the story and try to see the truth "in the middle.  A mod/admin can't be a complete hardass with the rules because then he/she will be seen as an unlikable power hungry individual who makes life no fun for any of the members.  On the other side of the coin, a mod/admin can't be too lax because then people might complaint about stuff that is going on and get the idea that mods/admins don't give a shit and are favoring other people.  Ideally it should be a balance but I can assure all of you I DO talk to these troublemakers via PM or msn but I do NOT LIKE publicly chastising individuals.  So don't get the idea that I don't talk to these people and tell them to STFU, because I do - just not publicly for all of SF-O to see.

That being said, maybe it's time for me to break tradition here for once.... 

Milkyway64, please right now for sake of this topic, STFU I've giving you a 15% warning and one more outburst from you it will be doubled.

as much  junk as i have said abut you i was just working my anger off. PersnNLy i think you were possibly prematurely promoted that is all. So shoot me with your laser gun.

[Scott7]

The DEATH THREATS WERE THE REASON. How does language even COMPARE? What were you THINKING with this post? "Oh yeah, Matt got banned somewhere for doing what you did IN THIS TOPIC... oh, except the FUCKING DEATH THREATS, I guess, but those don't matter."

please just give it a rest...

[Tiberius]

I'm not criticizing your ability, I'm criticizing the amount of time you put in. You have a full time job that pulls you away. Let somebody else do it after apprenticing them I guess.

Wait... That's it!!!

Current mods seem to have developed lives that they must attend to and cannot put more time toward this. Why not let them pick apprentices and teach them how to mod? Once they feel the apprentices are up to it, the apprentices are full mods.

[Kursed]

I'm not criticizing your ability, I'm criticizing the amount of time you put in. You have a full time job that pulls you away. Let somebody else do it after apprenticing them I guess.

Wait... That's it!!!

Current mods seem to have developed lives that they must attend to and cannot put more time toward this. Why not let them pick apprentices and teach them how to mod? Once they feel the apprentices are up to it, the apprentices are full mods.

I don't know if that is a wise decision.

[Xortberg]

I don't know if that is a wise decision.

I actually think it is. We could definitely use more active mods, and it's better to have them learn from an existing mod than just drop them in the thick of everything and hope for the best.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

I don't know if that is a wise decision.

I don't see any reason why that would be bad....