Why I've been gone

[Kid_Cortet]

Robert Monroe, Milkway64, you cannot tell me who I am or am not.  You have not had the life experiences that I have had, and it's rude (and highly controversial) to favor "straight-acting" over "gay-acting" or vice versa.  I am simply myself, and as long as it's not inflicting grievous harm on other people, being myself should be adequate.

And Robert Monroe, no one should ever have to tolerate being treated in a homophobic manner.  To not always be persecuted for benign immutable characteristics is a right.  My acceptance of homophobia is zero.  As it must be.  It is a prejudice that, wherever possible, must die a cold silent death.  That is not a matter up for negotiation.

I hate to say it pal, as no one should live in fear, just as straight people should accept our views and choices, we need to accept theirs. If they are not ok with it, then fine, just dodge them. For me personally, I have had people tell me that they honestly were homophobes, it did not in anyway affect how I treated them. When they found out I was gay, they honestly did back off, but since we were friends before hand, they are accepting. But not once did I try to shove it down their throats about gay rights, sure I am proud of who I am, but still, they have the right to think what they want too. The only time I am intolerable to 'gay-haters' is when the bashings happen, then I get riled up, but luckily I have not been around that, and pray I never will. How you are as a person does not need to be reflected by what you are. Hell, Yeah, I am openly gay, but it is not like that is all I am. And thank you Milky for acknowledging it, but you are right. My homosexuality does NOT take up me as a person. I'm just a simple nerd into some pretty geeky things, and that is how I make my friends. I know each person is different, and each story is as well. Though to fuel the fire of hate, only causes more problems. Like, I understand why people are against what I am, it is because they believe so strongly in God, and they see homosexuality as anti-procreation, and they have that right to think that. Sure, I admit I play gay characters on here on the role playing section, and on other role playing sites, but again, everywhere else I talk about the topic on hand. I still see you as a friend, you don't have to worry about that. Just realize to hate haters, makes them hate you back and the cycle continues onward with no solution.

(sorry for the rant guys....these are just my views on how this topic is going)

[Sabre]

Oh crap, it's happening again.

[Dermot]

Hm...  I suppose there's something to think about there.  I guess I honestly don't actually know many straight people.  I mean, at all.  The ones I do know are either super-gay-friendly or have mostly gay friends themselves.  So...it really can be a major part of living culture for some people - one they may rarely notice or think much of unless someone else points it out.  So when anyone expresses anti-gay views in that kind of environment, it's like the Blitz against our very world.  So it can be difficult not to see anti-gay views as a fundamental destructive attack.  In fact...I think I still don't.  How can I sympathize with people for having anti-gay views when what they desire is a destruction of my dignity and the dignity of most of my friends?  Do I wish such hostile people could be better people and not treat others so badly?  Sure, absolutely, I'd love that.  But how can I support or comfort them while knowing what it is that they want of me?  How could I even think of doing such a thing and still have a conscience?

I am actually curious about this case. Was it because he had the signatures and such showing those pics, along with some avi's that did as well? I personally don't know this issue that well.

To be honest, I was never all that certain myself most of the time.  I always felt really henpecked.  Something about me being too gay all the time, or talking about gay things all the time.  Though it's actually not hugely different from how I talk to my own friends on IM and FurAffinity.  The funny thing is, a lot of the topics may seem like all-gay-all-the-time to other people, but with my friends, that they're "very gay" doesn't really come up - we discuss them for other reasons besides what they all have in common.  And I don't even think of myself as all-gay-all-the-time - I'm eccentric, certainly, but I'm a lot subtler than all the artificial screaming queens on Logo.  It usually seems like the only way I'm all-gay-all-the-time is through the eyes of others.

[Xortberg]

Hm...  I suppose there's something to think about there.  I guess I honestly don't actually know many straight people.  I mean, at all.  The ones I do know are either super-gay-friendly or have mostly gay friends themselves.  So...it really can be a major part of living culture for some people - one they may rarely notice or think much of unless someone else points it out.  So when anyone expresses anti-gay views in that kind of environment, it's like the Blitz against our very world.  So it can be difficult not to see anti-gay views as a fundamental destructive attack.  In fact...I think I still don't.  How can I sympathize with people for having anti-gay views when what they desire is a destruction of my dignity and the dignity of most of my friends?  Do I wish such hostile people could be better people and not treat others so badly?  Sure, absolutely, I'd love that.  But how can I support or comfort them while knowing what it is that they want of me?  How could I even think of doing such a thing and still have a conscience?

I'll tell you exactly how, and why, you should not condemn people for anti-gay views: it's the exact same thing they're doing to you.

First off, it's hypocritical. If you're going to demand people to accept your views, you can under no circumstances expect them to respect that if you don't do it yourself. By not even trying to accept that these people don't like gays, you show them every reason to continue disliking your lifestyle choice. Ever hear of self-fulfilling prophecy? Anti-gays expect you to act the way you do, and as such they act in such a way to provoke this behavior from you. If you give in and act this way, you're justifying their own actions.

If you want people to accept you for your views, then you have to accept their views, even if you don't agree with them. I'm not necessarily a huge Obama fan, but I do like him a lot more than McCain and Palin. I also happen to be friends with many, many people who hate Obama and will pass up no opportunity to bash him. Do you know why I'm still friends with them? Because I accept their views, and since I don't go around with an attitude like yours, they're willing to overlook views of mine that they don't agree with.

To make a long-winded rant short, what I'm trying to say is basically this: If you want people to accept you for who you are, you can't go around shoving it down their throats and then expecting them to have no problem with it. It just doesn't work like that.

[Dermot]

I'll tell you exactly how, and why, you should not condemn people for anti-gay views: it's the exact same thing they're doing to you.

First off, it's hypocritical. If you're going to demand people to accept your views, you can under no circumstances expect them to respect that if you don't do it yourself. By not even trying to accept that these people don't like gays, you show them every reason to continue disliking your lifestyle choice

- you had me until then.  "Lifestyle choice" is a highly derogatory term these days.  But in case you were actually saying the term verbatim just because they say it, I did read the rest of your comment.  To be honest, I have mixed feelings about it.  There is certainly something to be said about a self-fulfilling prophecy and not giving fuel to people who hate.  On the other hand, most of the things I do that they hate are things I don't think twice about, and usually do not even notice I'm doing.  I am constantly told and even taught that homophobia is something never to accept or tolerate - that it is just as bad as any form of categorical hate.  And honestly, what happened with the most racist generations was that they grew old and died taking their prejudice to their graves.  The progress wasn't made with them - it was made with their descendants as they came of age.  But me, I'm 30 - I don't want to be 60 before it becomes thoroughly unacceptable for people to treat me like that.  Even if I can't change people's attitudes, I can at least force a change in their conduct.  See, many of the old generation of racists didn't stop being racists even into the 1980s and 1990s - they just largely learned to shut the hell up about it.  The homophobes are supposed to shut up and not obstruct progress.  That's part of why prohibitions on hate speech exist in privately-run places.  Me, I'm just encouraged to be myself and be at ease with it.  I'm not the one actually doing something vile.  While gay people are not better than straight people or vice versa, a non-homophobe creates better karma for themselves than a homophobe.  It is not hypocritical to favor progress over regression, no matter what the regressives say or believe.

Anyway, I gotta go.

[Kid_Cortet]

- you had me until then.  "Lifestyle choice" is a highly derogatory term these days.  But in case you were actually saying the term verbatim just because they say it, I did read the rest of your comment.  To be honest, I have mixed feelings about it.  There is certainly something to be said about a self-fulfilling prophecy and not giving fuel to people who hate.  On the other hand, most of the things I do that they hate are things I don't think twice about, and usually do not even notice I'm doing.  I am constantly told and even taught that homophobia is something never to accept or tolerate - that it is just as bad as any form of categorical hate.  And honestly, what happened with the most racist generations was that they grew old and died taking their prejudice to their graves.  The progress wasn't made with them - it was made with their descendants as they came of age.  But me, I'm 30 - I don't want to be 60 before it becomes thoroughly unacceptable for people to treat me like that.  Even if I can't change people's attitudes, I can at least force a change in their conduct.  See, many of the old generation of racists didn't stop being racists even into the 1980s and 1990s - they just largely learned to shut the hell up about it.  The homophobes are supposed to shut up and not obstruct progress.  That's part of why prohibitions on hate speech exist in privately-run places.  Me, I'm just encouraged to be myself and at ease with it.

Anyway, I gotta go.

I don't think the "Lifestyle choices" was meant to be derogatory, some people honestly have trouble saying something small as in "Gay"...honestly I feel bad when I call someone who is black 'Black'. So I try to find other terms to describe them. But that is another matter. If you want just think of this (WARNING: GOING SLIGHTLY RELIGIOUS.....don't hate me.....) Anyway, that little book known as the BIBLE that they follow and find reason to hate you, yeah you know the one I talk about. Anytime someone throws something like that into my face, simply think of this: In that little book, yeah, God says it is wrong to be a homosexual, BUT, it also states "Do not judge least thee be judged" only God has the real power to judge who we really are, whether we are wrong or right in our choice of preference,  those who say we are going to hell, are in turn hurting themselves in the long run. Just think of that little fun fact every time some hater tries to rile you up and you should be fine my friend.

[Thu'um]

I got so exited when some one told me you were back! I hope i wasn't one of thaos people who made you leave.

[Guest DRL]

Dermot, I have to be honest with you.

I have... 'matured', a little at least, during the months that passed,

and I have gained some experience. I think now I am in a better

position to analize the situation(s) than I was back then.

First of all: You are not a bad person. And, I actually respect that you

do not choose to back down when you are to say that you are homosexual.

(I actually do that myself in a different way. When people meet me, they

might find themselves 'alienated' because I am a leftlist/socialist...)

But, I shall be honest. I for one did not get annoyed by your signature.

In fact, DZ somewhere, sometime (<--- quoting "Steel Empire"),

said that "You may put anything you want in your sig as long as it does not

violates the rules". Or like that.

But, you consistenly made threads, 90~95% of which were about homosexual

refferences, homosexual pairings, ect... But again, in honestly, a single topic

over and over again gets tiresome. Imagine if I started yelling at everyone why

I support leftlist policies, or why I preffer socialist(-tic) goverments to other types,

on EVERY possible situation I could. Indeed, people will get tired over time.

Some, in fact, might go as far as adding me to their ignore list, or even start to

depise me a little, due to my lack of topics. You made, in contrast, some really cool

stuff. For example: The File Illustrator. I still have it.

What I am trying to say, Dermot, is that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual

or not. In fact, actually I think that having a diverse economy/population/production,

well, diverse fanbase, is good. It creates an environment where all fans are welcome,

irrespective of their different ideas.

All that I am stating is, that you need to diversify your array of discussions. You are free

to stay in a same topic, but trust me, it may get annoying. It is like the decaying pile of

"Krystal" threads lying around. Krystal this, Krystal, that, Krytal bla-bla-bla. Yet, you are

behaving in the similar fanboish way. All that changes are the characters, the 'orientation',

yet in essense it has the same discussion value.

Now I hope I did not offend you in any way. If so I did, I apologize. But please, all I am

asking you is for a moment to look at other's perspective.

[Dermot]

Hm, well...I certainly am fanboyish.  Hell, if one were to look at my FurAffinity favorites, 99% of it is studs.  deviantART favorites too.  And, wouldn't you know it, most of my friends are either artists who draw a lot of guys, or people who like guy art on a daily basis.  And quite honestly...I rarely think about how unusual or fixated such a penchant may seem to others - it certainly doesn't seem that way to me.

It's possible that, during my visit here, I kept hoping again and again that I would find more people like on FurAffinity - guys with Y chromosomes on the brain.  I actually assumed I'd easily find at least a dozen people who are far fruitier than I am (I'm not exactly straight-acting, but I'm still pretty tame and restrained compared to a lot of people I know).  I didn't find that.  That would have been mostly okay, except that my business-as-usual actually started to annoy some people here, and even brought out some homophobes.  Sure, I tried to adjust, but at the end of the day I usually do what I'm good at - talk about guys, art and gossip.  It's really the best way I unwind and ease up in a casual discussion with friends.

In fact, do you know what reignited the intensity of my interest in Star Fox after so many years?  The vast gay fandom I rediscovered, full of color and expression and interest and delightful good-natured fanboyishness.  I only found out after the fact that most of them avoid the Krystal fandom hangouts entirely (including SFO).  But even for someone as intelligent as I am, much of the time my favorite thing to do is talk about guys, art and gossip.

The funny thing is, though there is clearly a gay element in this pasttime, it's almost never actually a prurient pursuit - I'm not nearly as voyeuristic as some people may think me to be.  It's more like...girl talk, except for obvious reasons it's not girl talk.  But it is gossipy as hell.  And really, that's what my other friends who like Star Fox do with me - we talk about it like it's a series of fantastic romance novels with badboy wolf pirates and troubled-but-cute avian loners and the like.  We are like cackling hens in the coop...or at least like cackling gay cockerels in the coop.  Or at least that's how it works best - sometimes a friend only wants to talk about which characters he wants to see under tentacles.  And I immediately lose interest - that has nothing to do with their personality or chemistry or character development - I like depth, not some mindless cheap porno.  But even then, it's not like I'm annoyed - I just lose interest, and the topic either drifts to something else or the conversation trails off.

I guess part of the problem is...when few other people are similarly interested, I'm really at a complete loss as to what else to talk about.  It's not like I came to discuss G-diffusers.

[Guest DRL]

I understand your point of view, but then again, it does not

makes mine wrong.

I mean... uh. I face the same situation myself. I know a lot

about politics. Economy, to some degree to. And some geography.

Ask me about a country, it's land, it's people. It's economy and style;

heck, I can even tell you how to run for president - or maybe even

take over as dictator - in it. Yet, most people at my age do not care

about any of this. They may listen to my words, but it is as if the

words got into one ear and came out from the another. It simply does

not interests them. Yet for me, there is no other pleasure in 'debating'

that I have; if the subject at hand is something I consider non-serious,

then the debate bores me. If, on the other hand, we are talking about

Lenin's archievements (to say a name, there are many), I can prove

much more talkative and willing to discuss both facts, theories, and even

fantasize a little about 'how the world would be if we were under the

same flag' and the like. What if the Soviets had won the Cold War... etc.

But, we all have to draw a line. There are moments and moments for

everthing. I mean, I love the subject(s) ^ I just mentioned, but it is not

like everyone is interested in it. Yet, here I am: all of the people around here

may or may not be fans of Starfox, yet we all like the game and know about

it.

Likewise, there is plenty of knowledge you have about the games. Specially

the early ones. THAT is what makes you a fan. Your like for the games. When

you draw a controller only to replay what you have already finished a dozen times -

that is someone who is dedicated to improving his or her score, and perhaps to find

a new secret that was not seen before.

I mean, call me cold-blooded or psitronic, but to me, pairing a character or making

a fanfiction about it does not make you a fan. Your love for the games does. Now,

we all like one character more, one character a little less, but in the game's universe,

there is a lot more than just sexuality and romance. There is action, intrigue - perhaps

mistery and deceit, if the game is right for it. Now Starfox is not particullary a plot-filled

series (one can say: all the opposite...) but that does not means one should limit

itself to a fraction of the game. It is as if I took the Arwings and spoke about the

Arwings with no regards as to who pilotted them, or where they flew, or who build them.

Now there is the fanbase. As you have mentioned before, there exists a broken fanbase.

But the reason as to why such broken fanbase exists, is because each 'side' centers around

a sole portion of the games (fanboys that center either around Krystal, or in your case,

Fox + Falco), without trying to find similarities. It is as if you drew a line: "We white, you

black" and forget that there are other aspects in which you could agree.

I speak on my own experiences, again, but there is more in a country than just politics or

economy. A lot more actually, such as videogames. Thus, if I can not find someone who

shaes my 'exact' interests, I try to compromise. I still like politics and economy; and I am

still a socialist at heart and mind. Yet, someone has yet to complain about me creating

threads SOLELY for the purpose of explaining socialism.

[Xortberg]

I dunno for sure, since I wasn't exactly around at the same time you were, but by browsing through your past threads it seems that the phrase 'homophobe' might be pretty incorrect. I don't think, for the most part, anyone here has a problem with gays. Rather, the constant barrage of you and your desire for everything to be related to gay stuff wore on them. It's like Milky, Robert and I with the Krystal worshipers. I have no problem with a person liking Krystal; I like my fair share of bad characters, after all, so I have no room to talk when it comes to something like that. However, the constant references and the fact that Krystal pretty much dominates any discussion with very little influence from other characters wears on us, to the point that Milky made a topic specifically to debate with the Krystal fans.

What I'm trying to say isn't that you should stop being gay, or being proud about being gay, or talking about being gay or doing gay things. None of that. Just try toning it down a little bit. Have a sig with less yaoi stuff, only insert gay references where appropriate, don't argue about characters being gay, etc. Maybe make a couple of topics about character sexuality or something and concentrate most of it there.

We're willing to try and make your stay here enjoyable, but you've gotta meet us halfway. Compromise is the name of the game.

[Dublinthefox]

And this is where I disagree. We have a few other gay people here on SFO. Kid Cortet is one and so is Nick I think.  Thing is, they follow this:

Wait, isn't FredrykPhox as well? Vrance Movado for some reason told me.

[Fluxy]

And this is where I disagree. We have a few other gay people here on SFO. Kid Cortet is one and so is Nick I think.  Thing is, they follow this:

Way to go guessing at me, Lol. Not sure how you tried guessing at it in the first place, but you are partially correct. I am bisexual.

[Milkyway64]

I knew from somewhere. I wasn't totally sure, but it doesn't really matter. You're cool with your sexuality.

[Fluxy]

Now, before this becomes a "Guess who is a homosexual" event, I would like to say that it isn't necessary to the point. Lol

I agree with Milky on this case. While it is one thing to be who you are, and express it in some way, The consideration of others do matter. I can easily see why people would not like hearing mainly "Homo" driven reasons for posts, or having to see lots of yaoi [sorry if that is wrong; I am not good on those terms] in a sig per post. Even people who are straight, but don't mind those who are homosexuals, would get annoyed at seeing that much of it.

I personally have nothing with you, Dermot. I respect how easily you can be open, and find that commendable. But just the same, what was happening with peoples responses seem very reasonable.

Now, if you were to make a thread for  pics of  that variety [of course following the no pornography rule], I think it would be a good idea. Would give a place to see it if people wanted to, and discuss it; Allowing those who have the same common interests as you to discuss it there, and not make anyone feel uncomfortable, as it would be their choice to go to the thread in the first place.

From what I have heard, many people still want you here, and I myself wouldn't mind you coming back, as you seem like an awesome person. And I agree with others, as the reason I suggested the thread idea, that some type of compromise is needed when it goes to that degree.

---And that is my educated opinion on this case is.

[Sabre]

This is where I disagree. It's not the amount, or the fact it exsists. It's the hypocrasy and, as said earlier, forcing it into where it was not relivent. Be gay as much as like, that's not the issue. No need to be considerate about such a matter. It's like me with games (as you will see in a moment) but the difference is limits. When it's hyjacking threads then it's a problem, and when it's used to bully people, then it's a problem. To clarify, saying "Agree with me or I will report you for being homophobe" type stuff. He can be as open as he likes as long as he isn't being a problem imo.

Yaoi - Man on man

Yuri - Woman on woman, and a red alert character. I like both kinds of yuri.

Again. He can make a Yaoi thread provided that the rules are consistant across all boards. One of the sparks among the (mostly gone) Krystal fans when the original drama kicked off was that inconsistancy, that images were often pulled for seeming no reason. Being able to see half an inch of Krystal bum cheek type stuff, yet the gay signitures and threads were full of painted on thongs that was so revealing you can tell their religion.

Same with the discussion. Again, already mentioned better then I will put it, but insisting there is only one right way, and that personal fanon was canon, is a problem.

[Dermot]

Hm...all interesting and fairly good points.  Even Sabre, as I'm surprised he said something so unantagonistically productive to the conversation.

Well, you're right - I have a strong arrogant streak.  I don't know if it's pathological or not - it just always seems to come out in some way or another.  And I have to say, I even chuckled at Sabre's "tell their religion" comparison, though I'd never thought of beachwear in such a fashion (I grew up with that, after all, and I still think of "package" and "bulge" as a silly continental Victorian concepts).

I'm beginning to see more and more where MouthOff and Papetoon were successes - I largely kept my hands off the politics, and just tried to run a good ship.  Because, as everyone can plainly see, I am an opinionated feller.  I mean, I still believe I am right, but I suppose what I'd forgotten was relative perspective - that other people can feel very strongly about their own fanons even if I think they're mistaken.  They need to be given that freedom, rather than always be corrected as if they'd spoken bad grammar.

But another thing that incidentally helped me keep my hands off the politics of the old boards, was that I realized that the fandom was moving to Star Fox 64, a game which didn't suit me gameplay-wise.  I also didn't approve back then that they seemed to be giving Falco a girlfriend in Katt.  (Though later this proved to be a red herring and they were never really a couple, and Falco was indeed non-straight as I'd pegged him to be, and they were more like brother and sister, albeit not blood-related like Luke and Leia.)

But this just shows how I am still a fan and even incorporated elements of later games into my fanon even while excluding others.  It hasn't helped that Star Fox has had a reboot (and possibly another one coming up) and uncounted retcons that give the story less canonical continuity than even the Mario series (which is itself intentionally continuity-vague), so in many ways fanon can be as important (or more important) than canon.

But the nature of fanon is that it itself has a different continuity among each fan or group of fans.  And they're every bit as equal - even if someone decides Fox is actually a woman à la Samus Aran, or if someone decides that Falco is not a bird, but a cuttlefish.  It may seem outlandish, but it's special to someone.  And in a universe of extremely uncertain canon, fanon is what helps some of them keep a story continuity.  But fanon shouldn't be an angry weapon of fandom war.  To end this kind of war was actually what I hoped to accomplish by inviting anti-Krystal fans to the boards - getting all sorts of diverse fans to coexist and learn how to do so peacefully and happily.  I wanted to unbreak the broken base and forge unity, though I myself had effectively been one of the warring factions.  The strongly negative reaction had made me lose all hope that the fandom could ever be healed of its divisions.  But am I correct to understand that it the divisions gradually diminished in my absence anyway?

And DRL, I believe you are mistaken about one thing - the games are not all that matter.  You see, in 1993, the first game was not the first Star Fox media to come out.  The Benimaru Itoh comic started publishing in February, the game was silently published in April, and the TV advertisements didn't even hit until October.  The comic finished in December.  It was the comic that provided a hook, helping to start flesh out the characters, their personalities, and their relationships.  One started to really care about Fox, Falco, Peppy, Slippy and Fara as characters, and of Papetoon as a troubled world - all before there was even a game to be played.  I ended up loving SNES Star Fox anyway, and later enjoyed Star Fox 2 as well.  And then I found Farewell, Beloved Falco (the other comic), and fell in love with that as well.  I didn't warm up to Star Fox 64, Star Fox Adventures, Star Fox Assault or Star Fox Command, but I liked some of their characters (and characterizations), and I ended up loving the SNES games and the comics - they are Star Fox to me.  And further still, I fell in love with the characterizations of Fox, Falco, Wolf and even Leon in all their rendered glory and banter in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  So yes, the characterizations do matter, even if one ends up liking them more than one likes the games.  I do like the Lylat System too and its potential for background story, but my favorite aspect is still the characters.

In the spirit of fanon and in caring about more than just who is gay, someday I ought to flesh out my fanon details in full - characters, worlds, backstories, technologies, potential tie-ins with F-Zero, all of it.  If I won't be derided for it...

But still, one of my favorite things is the fanart.  One thing a lot of people may not have realized about my animated fanart collage is that it wasn't specifically gay-themed - it included selections of all the art I liked best, gay or not (though some of it is gay).  I thought it was all worth showing to show what kind of fan I was overall.

Here's what my sig looked like.  Try to see past only the gay, and see my diverse interests and likes.  Note that Slippy in a swimsuit was not even a gay or hunky guy interest - it was just hilarious as hell.

[Milkyway64]

I'm glad you actually acknowledge our problems now, but there's just a few things I just have to point out.

Hm...all interesting and fairly good points.  Even Sabre, as I'm surprised he said something so unantagonistically productive to the conversation.

Well Sabre isn't STUPID, he just is sometimes as stubborn as they come.

  I also didn't approve back then that they seemed to be giving Falco a girlfriend in Katt.  (Though later this proved to be a red herring and they were never really a couple, and Falco was indeed non-straight as I'd pegged him to be, and they were more like brother and sister, albeit not blood-related like Luke and Leia.)

This is EXACTLY what we're talking about. This fanon of your's =/= canon, and you stating it as such is just asking for trouble. As of Command, Katt is still around and she and Falco are still implied to go somewhere together.

But this just shows how I am still a fan and even incorporated elements of later games into my fanon even while excluding others.  It hasn't helped that Star Fox has had a reboot (and possibly another one coming up) and uncounted retcons that give the story less canonical continuity than even the Mario series (which is itself intentionally continuity-vague), so in many ways fanon can be as important (or more important) than canon.

Which is fine, as long as it's not argued as anything other than your personal version of the events. Although I do argue that the canon isn't broken up, it just is, given the nature of the series, left with holes and is never properly explained. Command however, with all it's endings, throws that out the window (while ironically being the most explained in the series. Imagine that.)

But the nature of fanon is that it itself has a different continuity among each fan or group of fans.  And they're every bit as equal - even if someone decides Fox is actually a woman à la Samus Aran, or if someone decides that Falco is not a bird, but a cuttlefish.  It may seem outlandish, but it's special to someone.  And in a universe of extremely uncertain canon, fanon is what helps some of them keep a story continuity.

Saying Fox is a woman or Falco is a cuttlefish is what we actually call an asspull. There's a difference between fanon and just making stuff up. Fanon is using evidence and unclear points to draw in a personal canon that fits reasonably well with the overall series. Making stuff up is calling Falco a cuttlefish, see.

Here's what my sig looked like.  Try to see past only the gay, and see my diverse interests and likes.  Note that Slippy in a swimsuit was not even a gay or hunky guy interest - it was just hilarious as hell.

Oh my god, it's Sex God Slippy! I was a part in his creation! <3

On a more series note, the problems. That sig is every bit as annoying as people with "suggestive" Krystal fanart (I use quotes because Krystal's very character is suggestive, so hey.) but the single biggest offense is the convincing text edit of the comic panel. Falco didn't say anything along those lines, and you'd only know that if you read the comic yourself. For people unaware, that's almost blatant trolling.

[Guest DRL]

The problem, Dermot, is that fanon is not what keeps consistency to a story.

Fanon itself fluctuates every time a change in the cannon occurs. It may reject

these changes and return to it's "prior state", but that does not means it is... uh,

'right'. Take me, for example. We have no idea who runs Lylat, yet somewhere it says

it is a Federation. We have no idea who is in charge, so I think it is safe to assume it is

Pepper.

Yet, I am not claiming it is 'the only possible' way. Likely, you are stating as a fact that

Falco and Katt have no reciprocated interests - yet, I have yet to see a 'homosexual'

conotation either (unless you count Command, but for obvious reasons, none of the

endings are canon.)

Indeed, assuming that any of the characters are homosexual is no more than assuming

that Krystal is what makes Starfox... Starfox. Both of these things share something in common.

Both are fanon. Both are different. But may be completely wrong, and there is not proof that

either is right. Hence my point.

Now you say your interest lies in the characters. I am not going to say it is bad. I am going to

state, however, that the Itoh comic was de-canonized when SF64 was launched. I am not going

to deny that many like Fara. I am not going to deny that I do not like her as much.

Yet, there is only thing being true: Fara is not formally part of Starfox. And that is it, because the

games say so. Or not say, for the matter.

What I am trying to say, Dermot... Is that you need to accept other's perspectives. To me, specifically,

none of the characters in the games have interest in sex, at all (unless you count Command... But then

again Command fails to make canon). Yet, I am not going to deny that there are others who believe so.

You, here present, believe that Falco is homosexual. I doubt it, but I am not going to call your oppinion wrong.

This is exactly because, were you lack proof to say they are homosexual(s), I lack proof to say they are not.

You see, in terms of fanon, we are on equal grounds.

Furthermore... I understand your point. You do like to make stories about romance, love, ect...

The trouble is that limiting yourself to your fanon, makes compatibility with others nigh on impossible.

You need to find other people's fanon which matchs with yours, which you have seen, is kinda difficult.

Let's take your signature, for example. There are some cool things here, (for example, Peppy's "hey pals"

gesture), yet there is only a predominant element: couples. Now I am not saying it is bad, just stating that

there is more to characters than pairing them. Hence, people might have more interest in other traits, rather

than fan-based couples, no offense intended, again, but if we are all to cooperate in the same environment,

we need to look at all those aspects. Even if we do not have great interest.

Where I for example, state that Andross has 'run it's course' and is no longer a 'need' in the games,

there are others who want him to come back. Yet, nobody knows what will happen in the next game.

[Milkyway64]

To me, specifically,

none of the characters in the games have interest in sex, at all (unless you count Command... But then

again Command fails to make canon).

Adventures with Fox's reaction to Krystal and Assault with the honeymoon statement show otherwise.  :trollface:

[Dermot]

But what made up my signature was personal to me as a fan.  I am surely allowed to have that distinctiveness.  And besides, the gay Falco opinion was not just my opinion - most of my friends thought it too.  I know it's not going to be a universal opinion or accepted fact, but there's no denying that he's become iconic in the gay fandom (along with Wolf and Leon).  To be honest, I am actually very uncomfortable with the implication that I shouldn't reflect gay fandom interests in my signature.  And I still think the parody scanlation of that manga page is brilliant and directly underscores a major fan appeal segment.

Listen.  If fans are allowed to make signatures that personalize their legitimate fan interests - whatever the topic may be - what is so wrong with personalizing my signature to reflect my own fan interests?  It's not like there's any porn or anything.  If my signature were a picture of Slippy and Amanda's wedding, I doubt anyone would similarly complain.

And yeah, I recognize that Fox being a woman or Falco being a cuttlefish would be someone's asspull.  And not even my asspull (I was making up an outlandish example on purpose).  But I see all sorts of things in the fandom that seem like asspulls to me, and it's just fan variation.  I'm saying that, even if one were to think such an asspull, they would not be wrong to feel that way.

[Milkyway64]

But what made up my signature was personal to me as a fan.  I am surely allowed to have that distinctiveness.  And besides, the gay Falco opinion was not just my opinion - most of my friends thought it too.  I know it's not going to be a universal opinion or accepted fact, but there's no denying that he's become iconic in the gay fandom (along with Wolf and Leon).  To be honest, I am actually very uncomfortable with the implication that I shouldn't reflect gay fandom interests in my signature.  And I still think the parody scanlation of that manga page is brilliant and directly underscores a major fan appeal segment.

Regardless of how many friends agree, it's still personal fanon and the PROBLEM is your habit of stating said fanon as if it were as universal and correct as the actual canon.  As for reflecting them, fine, but do know that there are A: kids around and B: not everyone is in StarFox for the sake of looking at shirtless anthro dudes in a very implied romantic situation that comes out of nowhere other than the internet. It's again, for the same reason someone spamming their profile with overtly suggestive Krystal/[other SF female here] pictures including lesbian. It's every bit as sleazy and out of the left field for a forum like SFO. There IS, however, a thread for these types of pictures, where they are contained to those who want to see. This is the only reason I'm not onto them too.

Listen.  If fans are allowed to make signatures that personalize their legitimate fan interests - whatever the topic may be - what is so wrong with personalizing my signature to reflect my own fan interests?  It's not like there's any porn or anything.  If my signature were a picture of Slippy and Amanda's wedding, I doubt anyone would similarly complain.

Because as it stands, you're the only one so far to specifically take your interests to a weird to flat out offensive level. Once more, see the rest of the gay/bi community here.  Despite their sexuality being part of who they are, it's not so much so that they'll whine and outright fight to put sleazy pictures of half naked furry guys on their profile on what's supposed to be an all-ages forum.

And the Slippy/Amanda thing is a horrible thing to back yourself up on, as it would not entail near-nudity and it happens in-game to boot.

And yeah, I recognize that Fox being a woman or Falco being a cuttlefish would be someone's asspull.  And not even my asspull (I was making up an outlandish example on purpose).  But I see all sorts of things in the fandom that seem like asspulls to me, and it's just fan variation.  I'm saying that, even if one were to think such an asspull, they would not be wrong to feel that way.

And yet, there is still some fanon that is more "right" than others. Believing a character may be gay is acceptable fanon. Coming in and introducing the idea that Fox is a woman is just fetishized random asspull. Coming in and introducing the idea that Falco is a fish just suggests you need glasses. The difference is so clear that I feel silly arguing it. However, there's also a line with how wrong they are to thing so. Long story short, it's not wrong of them to think so, so long as they don't hammer it in all over a board who doesn't universally accept it, visually and verbally in the way of arguing it canon.

[Guest DRL]

Adventures with Fox's reaction to Krystal and Assault with the honeymoon statement show otherwise. 

Well, we all have our "ooooooh!" moments, but that is not relevant

to the gameplay. Or maybe I am too... simple to see it.

But what made up my signature was personal to me as a fan.  I am surely allowed to have that distinctiveness.  And besides, the gay Falco opinion was not just my opinion - most of my friends thought it too.  I know it's not going to be a universal opinion or accepted fact, but there's no denying that he's become iconic in the gay fandom (along with Wolf and Leon).  To be honest, I am actually very uncomfortable with the implication that I shouldn't reflect gay fandom interests in my signature.  And I still think the parody scanlation of that manga page is brilliant and directly underscores a major fan appeal segment.

I am not stating that your signature was bad. I for one - it did not bother me at all.

It was how you reacted when a thread about two characters was made. You would come,

explain why Falco and, say, Wolf or Fox "made such a nice couple", and etc.

To me, what you put in your signature does not matters (in fact, I personally found the

quote from Falco to be hilarous, rather than annoying). It is how you react to different ideas

and the rest of the environment.

It is as if I started pointing out why "Argentina's representative is a drunkard" on EVERY possible

situation, even when not directly related to. But it does not breaks any rules that such phrase is

in my sig; similary, your signature did not break any rules.

Another thing. Now, I know everyone has a fanon of his or her (perhaps even it's?) own, and

therefore for a person, it is perfectly fine to assume Fox is a female if so they wish. The problem

comes when they go around with a megaphone and yell so in every possible situation. Personally

I do not mind it if you paint your car or house with it; but if you use a megaphone, people are going

to complain.

[Fluxy]

Adventures with Fox's reaction to Krystal and Assault with the honeymoon statement show otherwise. 

Yeah... Fox is a horny mut for a reason. "TEMPERATURES RISING" Does not mean he is -just- blushing. And Assault definitely showed that both characters wouldn't mind something happening.

As for command, *Shrug* It still -technically- is not cannon, so I won't go into that. [Lol]

[Dermot]

Milkyway64: Why should it matter whether children are present when there are men without shirts on or gay couples around?  One can see shirtless men and gay couples in public all the time, can't they?  It is strange to imply that men without shirts or gay couples are somehow not child-friendly.  Did you not think that I had in mind what seemed like a mature situation and what seemed ordinary?  To demand there be shirts on these men or no benign public displays of effection is like demanding burkas on women in public - I would be extremely uncomfortable complying with such a request that seems so much stricter than the standards of public decency I understand.  It is actually one of my firmest principles to not give into bible-belt-style moral guardianship as if it trumps everything else.  Besides, it is actually very foreign and incomprehensible to me.

DRL: Well, it seems that I've hardly been on the past few months, so I really haven't been doing that lately.  What I didn't really understand before is that "Fox and Wolf make such a nice couple" is to other people what "Falco and Katt make such a nice couple" is to me.  But the latter is something I really don't fuss too much over anymore, if it's someone else's interpretation.  I might speak my mind sometimes in a deviantART comment fashion, but that hardly means "remove this immediately" or "I hate this - you suck".  That's not very grown up now, is it?

Anyway, as for the manga scanlation parody I made, I actually do think that is my biggest hope to actually be true, and I had it to provoke people into noticing and thinking, at least to stir the pot of ideas.  And I actually put the panels on their side while still making the page's text upright, to show that it wasn't a direct cropping of the page, but obviously an edit of it.  Falco was always my favorite Star Fox character (and who reminds me the most of myself, especially in my teens and young adult years), and I have a long-term fan interest in him that hasn't diminished in 17 years.  And I suspected he was gay that entire 17 years.  So, if you think about, the parody scanlation is not only about Falco as a character, but about me as a long-time Falco fan.