I've been suddenly receiving requests to come back

[Sabre]

...Like a record baby...

[Dermot]

Sissi, what did you like most about my cookies?

[Xortberg]

After my final comment addressed to Robert Monroe, I immediately put him and Milkyway64 on ignore.  I didn't want to be in such a toxic environment, so I said I won't come back with it.  And, I'm still leaning towards that.

But then I suddenly started getting lots of PMs from people asking me to come back and stay.  They told me that it doesn't matter what trolls say - they like me being here, and they either like my images or are perfectly fine with them.  Someone told me that more people want me to stay than to leave.

Oh. My. God. These people are NOT TROLLS. Can they be abrasive? Yes. Can they be blunt and offensive? Sometimes, though usually only after exhausting their patience trying to be polite. This does not make them trolls.

I dont mind your images, provided we get the same courtosy. No favours.

For your ignore list, you might want to consider Xort. There is still some doubt in my mind that he isn't a sock puppet for Milky as he shares IP addresses and all opinions. The few times they have talked or had a disagreement almost always provides a suspisously suportive argument almost like a strawman.

Also be warry of User. Simply put, he's a friend of those 3, and the group together was nicknamed 'golden children' back during a drama on account of then being seen as never doing any wrong due to Users mod status. On the same note, avoid IM exchanges as they will attempt to bully you 'off the books', and if you do be sure to keep a copy paste record. Turns out User is paranoid and keep all IM archived, and will selectivly quote from it to make a point.

Oh, fucking please. I thought we were past this sockpuppet bullshit? I thought we even PM'd over it, and one of the mods told you not to bring it up in a topic anymore? I thought DZ himself said I checked out? And yet you still go around spouting off this horseshit? No. Just fucking no. And of course we agree on a lot of shit. We're best. Fucking. Friends. Know why? Because we AGREE ON A LOT OF SHIT.

Also, this is blatantly insulting three members, as well as a mod. Sure, Rob, Milky and I can be dicks sometime, but we always stop short of saying blatantly bad things about other users. How the fuck can you tell someone who to ignore and get away with:

Don't make me come over there, Sabre. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Seems like the exact same shit you get on User for regarding us; a simple slap on the wrist in the face of something that other people think requires punishment. If we're going to be scrutinized for having a mod tell us to just "hush" and get away other wise scott-free, then so are you. No double standards here.

User has been improving on his position these past few weeks. I'm unsure what his relationship with Rob, Milkyway, and Xort is though.

His relationship with Robert and Milky are, I believe, from the KLA. I know him through the time he came down to visit Milky, and occasional IM convos and here.

And Steve, I may not be perfect or flawless, but in many situations I am innocent.

Huh, Sabre gave me good advice?  *looks*  So he did.  Thank you, Sabre.  And yeah, I don't actually expect anyone to post less Krystal here anyway.  I mean, I still can't stand Krystal, but I actually made gestures towards reconciliation and tolerance and diversity, only for Krystal fans to be absolutely horrified that I sent out general invites to anti-Krystal fans.  People can be different, and at times I'm really tired of the holy war aspect of fan divisions.  Sometimes people have to coexist in tranquil peace, even if their interests within the fandom are diametrically opposed.  If you don't like something, just move on and let it be.  I'm sure most of us have at once time been FanHaters or teetered on the brink of being one, but it really is a karmic bloodbath to dabble too much in that.  But if people post homophobia or comments derogatory to gay people, I do mash the report button.

Innocent? I don't have too much to say here, since Milky already covered most of what I would say and Robert will most definitely appear here and go Omega-rage mode, so I'll just leave it at we were trying to help you. We wanted to compromise, since, you know, compromise is fucking necessary in order for anyone to be happy. But, you know, you just ignored all that and responded to every point made trying to help you by repeating your life story and saying we should conform to fit your delicate sensibilities.

As for homophobia or derogatory remarks towards homosexuality, no one here posts that shit. I am about as far from homophobic as they come, and I fully support your right to be gay and to be proud of that fact. Still, any time someone has a problem with you it's "HOMOPHOBIA! OH NOEZ!!! REPOOOOORT!" Ever think that the problems are, rather than being directed at your sexuality, being directed at you?

What?Uh-oh... speak of swords and walls...

We can allways make compromises.

I wonder, however, how much we will have to loosen the unity.

Loose it too much, and it will break-away...See? There are diverse topics you can talk about too.That is true, I have to admit. The site is slowly renwing itself.

Just like a well-led nation coming of a recesion.

Funny how just a short while ago we were at each other's throats, and now I'm pretty much agreeing with everything you say. Compromise is the name of the game here, and the site is not dying. It just slowed down a bit.

Rob and Milky aint no trolls. I'd advise you to make sure you get the good points in what they say, between anything anyone finds offensive in there, theres always good advise/explanations to stuff. But hey, Welcome Back if you decide to stay!

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Too many people here throw around words like "troll" and "flamewars" without even thinking once about what they actually mean. They're just ammo for them when they decide we need to be taken down a notch, and so they spout them off in the hopes that we'll get in trouble.

Well, actually, it's kinda worse when someone mixes in occasional sound logic with (what at the end of the day is) abusive treatment.  A simple troll is obvious.  Haven't you ever heard the phrase "Obvious troll is obvious"?  A more advanced troll will not always seem troll-like, and may be quite bright, but still has trollish effect.  I've met many, many highly-intelligent trolls in the past, and it's the smartest ones that know how to inflict the most damage.  They sometimes reveal themselves either when they've become bored, or they've run out of ideas, or have been decisively cut off from the target(s) of their trolling.

Only it isn't abusive treatment. At least, it wasn't before you started to completely ignore everyone's attempts to help you compromise and make peace with the users you had disagreements with. I honestly was trying to see from your side, and trying to help you see from the point of view of those who you had problems with. You blatantly ignored my attempts, though, so we did turn a bit hostile. Sue us for being humans and allowing ourselves to get irritated with your stubborn refusal to try and meet us halfway.

Now, unfortunately I'm almost certain that most, if not all of my post, will fly right over your head and you'll just see it as trolling or homophobia or some other shit. Still, if you could possibly try to see things from another person's point of view, you'll see that we aren't trolls, or homophobes, or anything of the sort. We're truly trying to help. You - and others - have simply managed to wear on our patience to the point that we're sick of it. I'm sure you, as a fellow "no horseshit" kind of guy, can see where we're coming from if you'll just try.

[Dermot]

Xort was already on my ignore list.

[Guest DRL]

Funny how just a short while ago we were at each other's throats, and now I'm pretty much agreeing with everything you say. Compromise is the name of the game here,

Well as they say: "Live and learn"... Right?

and the site is not dying. It just slowed down a bit.

Like I said, it is coming out a recesion.

Improving, growing after it shrinked.

Or whoever you want to put it.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

At any rate, this topic is going to get locked again...  :facepalm:

[Dermot]

I don't know, it may or may not get locked.  But for once it won't be because I tried to reason with trolls.

[Guest DRL]

At any rate, this topic is going to get locked again... 

Yeah.

"Somebody set us up bomb."

I don't know, it may or may not get locked.  But for once it won't be because I tried to reason with trolls.

I hope it does not. There has been enought thread-locking

recently.

[Scott7]

I don't know, it may or may not get locked.  But for once it won't be because I tried to reason with trolls.

Let's just try and take this a bit easier though Dermot... This is starting to make a bit more sense, but It is kinda fueling gauges.

[Dermot]

Yeah.

"Somebody set us up bomb."

I hope it does not. There has been enought thread-locking recently.

Yeah, kinda sucks, doesn't it?  Even when ignored, trolls can still derail a thread by being visible to everyone else, and then it gets locked.  It makes the already weak ignore function that much weaker.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

I have to agree most of the threads here sometimes get locked because we have arguements or "flamewars" with the trolls. I guess all of us at SF-O can never act civil at all...can't we?

[Scott7]

I have to agree most of the threads here sometimes get locked because we have arguements or "flamewars" with the trolls. I guess all of us at SF-O can never act civil at all...can't we?

Umm.... Can we stop using the word troll? At least here anyway?

[Dermot]

Well, it's a word that has a specific meaning.  I can't think of a brief euphemism for troll.

From Wiktionary: "To disrupt the operation of an online community, particularly by luring others into combative argument."

[Xortberg]

Well, it's a word that has a specific meaning.  I can't think of a brief euphemism for troll.

A specific meaning that doesn't apply in this case.

[Robert Monroe]

Well, actually, it's kinda worse when someone mixes in occasional sound logic with (what at the end of the day is) abusive treatment.  A simple troll is obvious.  Haven't you ever heard the phrase "Obvious troll is obvious"?  A more advanced troll will not always seem troll-like, and may be quite bright, but still has trollish effect.  I've met many, many highly-intelligent trolls in the past, and it's the smartest ones that know how to inflict the most damage.  They sometimes reveal themselves either when they've become bored, or they've run out of ideas, or have been decisively cut off from the target(s) of their trolling.

Yep, right, we're obviously trolls trying to make you feel bad, boo-fuckity-boo-hoo. (that was sarcasm, by the way.) A troll is someone who merely wishes to incite your emotions and piss you off, and while some can be very well thought out, none of the posts I have made towards you were malicious in nature. They were entailing what people might dislike about you because you seemed unable to see what was annoying them yourself, they were motivating you to be more inclusive of people you dislike while still being yourself (I have said I can't even count how many times now that being yourself and being gay is fine), but you, like the whiny little bitch that you are, have refused, time and time again, chance and chance again, to even look at the possibility that maybe you AREN'T 100% INNOCENT, and MAYBE some COMPROMISE and COOPERATION might be needed in order for all of us to PEACEFULLY COEXIST. But no, you ca't do that. You -won't- do that. Really, Dermot, if anyone here is the troll, its YOU, becuse you're the one whose annoying people, causing problems, and then being unaccessibe to any fucking advice we could possibly give you. Accept that or not, but that is what it has come down to. That is the truth. Deal with it.

And Sabre, all I care to say is "fuck" and "you". You speak of logic and reason and objective thinking, but you can't see beyond your own bubble of bias. You still go on with this Golden Children bullshit, the sockpuppet crap, its clear what your true colors are. You said to me in a PM these are old bones? Well, geuss they aren't so old after all, are they? I used to admire and respect you for being fairly smart and insightful, even if I found your rudeness and superiority complex to be at times burdensome and annoying, but hey I used to like Dermot too and look how that's turned out. If all you care about is beleiveing in some shit-wrong misconceptions about myself and my friends, especially when you can't even see your own flaws, then you go right ahead. I'm done wasting time and energy with you and your bullshit.

[Dermot]

Well, I think I'm going to take a nap.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

Well, I think I'm going to take a nap.

Ok then.

[Guest DRL]

Ok then.

Yeah.

[Xortberg]

Well, it's a word that has a specific meaning.  I can't think of a brief euphemism for troll.

From Wiktionary: "To disrupt the operation of an online community, particularly by luring others into combative argument."

From the rules on this very site: "Troll -  Someone who causes trouble for their own amusement"

We are far from doing this for our amusement. This is retribution. This is vengeance. This is burning justice. What this is not is trolling.

[Robert Monroe]

I have to agree most of the threads here sometimes get locked because we have arguements or "flamewars" with the trolls. I guess all of us at SF-O can never act civil at all...can't we?

You know, I take issue with this post too. Intended or not, its seething with bias against me and Milk. "The" trolls. "can never act civil". These are some mighty touchy use of words that carry a very negative connotation, which are also false. We aren't trolls. I'm sick of reliterating this. Do I have to start using foreign languages? It may prove to be more effective. The uncivil ones in these topics are the opposition, who can't hold an arguement together for a hill of beans, and resort to spam and off-topicness. That is what gets the topics locked, not the debates themselves.

I'm sick of being demonized for shit I haven't done because I shattered the faux realites of Krystal fanboys petty worshiping of her and they got mad. And I'm mad at you, Mr. Nintendo, because several months ago we had a conversation through PMs where it seemed we came to a very peaceful agreement on these issues, but alas, I geuss you decided to show your true colors.

From the rules on this very site: "Troll -  Someone who causes trouble for their own amusement"

We are far from doing this for our amusement. This is retribution. This is vengeance. This is burning justice. What this is not is trolling.

EeYGiS_hZhU

[Milkyway64]

I have to agree most of the threads here sometimes get locked because we have arguements or "flamewars" with the trolls. I guess all of us at SF-O can never act civil at all...can't we?

Stop this. Really. It's embarrassing.

The only "non troll" in this thread to not be a totally ears-covering child is One Winged Angel and pointing man. Nick and DRL too.  There's actually a few people come to think of it, but everyone else is all "Ohhh herd derp THE TROLLS" despite constant well pointed arguing to the contrary. It's almost like you guys are the real trolls with your refusal to settle anything in a civil manner, or in ANY manner other than passive aggressive hard headedness for that matter.

[Steve]

Ok, I have reached the point of sitting and watching, because you know what?, if I do something, like the last time, I'm going to get the whole forum using THIS event as an excuse to "troll"  the staff, and I don't want this again.

So I'm going to ask you all, what do you want me to do?

I can't do anything against milky,rob ,xort or sabre because I will have to do something against dermot as well, since he's not "innocent"

Or I can opt to do nothing and have my inbox full of reports and be called "bad admin", because at this rate, I'm starting to not care.

So, I'm not going to ban any of the 5 members here. Milky and the others have some observations that I fully agree, but I also agree that dermot is trying to find peace. I'm also wondering, full mods, where the heck are you all?

Anyways, yeah, I'm open to recommendations to skip what happened a few months ago. And I want recommendations, not "OH NO, HE'S MEAN, HE'S THE BAD GUY D:, STOOOP HIM" from any side. An agreement from both parties would be appreciated as well.

[Dermot]

Okay, I'm back.  Well, backish.  Took a nap, had chores to do, tired.

Hey, this is my 2^10th post.

Steve, I can honestly say that I'm not really paying attention to the stuff anymore, since my ignore list almost doubled in size overnight.  I think I'm alright.

[Xortberg]

Honestly, I think the first step is for everyone to un-ignore for the time being. As long as we're going to be trying to hash this out with Steve here, communication is key.

[Steve]

Apparently, Dermot is fine having you all ignored, he doesn't want to compromise or anything and he wants to keep everything like this. Sooo yeah. He said he tried. Are you all ok on being ignored?