PC against MAC?

[Sabre]

The reason Windows machines are called "PCs" is because of the IBM Personal Computer. The IBM PC was Apple's Arch Nemesis back in the 80s. It dominated the Apple ][ and the early Macs in the business world. Apples became known as toys, while IBMs were the working man's computer (Amiga ruled the creative scene then). The IBM PC ran PC-DOS, but since the machine said "IBM" on it, other DOS, including MS-DOS, machines became known as "IBM-Compatible" or "PCs." The nomenclature stuck and even today, we call Microsoft-based machines PCs.

This. That and I still call albums LPs despite not using records anymore.

On a related note, .gif images were invented to be usuable of all OSs, Macs, PCs, and Amigas. gif stands for Graphic Interchange Format. The modern equiverlant is .png (Portable Network Graphics). As a result any device or application (that is graphics focused) worth it's install space will support png and you don't get compressions artifacts, which is why artists love to use it despite it's larger size.

[Arashikage]

My dad works for Yale, so he's learned Mac pretty well, he switched from Windows a few years ago and won't leave me alone because I prefer Windows.  Whenever I have a problem for my computer, I ask him and he said it's because my machine runs Windows, but recently, my sister's Mac crashed and won't boot anymore, she didn't do a thing to it, it just stopped working after a while, so now I get to rub it in his face that this computer has been running Windows faithfully since 2005. 

I don't really like Mac much, I can't play games on them, but my other sister got a Mac G5 not too long ago, I was pretty jealous about it because I wanted it to put Windows on it and game, then I realized, the hardware is PowerPC, it wouldn't be compatible with anything windows or games.  I have no idea why Apple uses things like PowerPC, or the like.  Nobody supports it, can't do much that Apple didn't program for you.  They use Intel now, I have no problem with Intel, I just have problems with PowerPC.

As for the User Interface with Macs, I have noticed a few things I found humorous.  First off, the mouse.  Why does it have one clicker?  It seems pretty counter productive if you have one clicker, yet macs can right click as well, control click just doesn't cut it sometimes, like when you only have one hand to do things with and you just need to copy and paste something.  I also noticed that Macs have 16 function keys, 16!  Why would one need so many function keys?  Especially if you're like me and are using a Mac keyboard on your Windows machine, you can't print screen anymore, that's the F14 button.  Can't scroll lock anymore, that's F15, and you can't pause/break anymore, that's F16.  I realized also, that macs lack these features.

Just my take on things

[Conall Drest]

I prefer PC's cause they're both cheaper and can play more games.

[ThePointingMan]

I prefer PC all the way, but I do use a Mac keyboard on my P.C.

[Arashikage]

I prefer PC all the way, but I do use a Mac keyboard on my P.C.

Same EXACT thing here, I mean, I don't like MAC but I do like how their keyboards feel

[Mr. Krystal]

A Mac is a PC. Macs can run Windows, Linux, Unix, pretty much anything else. Therefore, other than hacky software and devices designed specifically to NOT work on Macs (somehow, since they use the same basic hardware now), a Mac can do anything a Windows machine can do.

The question should be: Windows vs. OS X

My opinion:

If you like one, use it. But don't confuse familiarity with ease of use ("Stupid Mac doesn't have a Start button?!"). You need to use both, probably for a considerable time, before making an unbiased judgement of them. I've used both. Windows 7 has come a long way towards getting to the general quality of OS X, but the same tiny annoyances from Windows XP (some from 95) that hurt my productivity are still in Windows 7:

• The ability to copy "nothing"
  
• Click to scroll instead of hover to scroll
  
• No built-in ability to customize keyboard shortcuts (to my knowledge)
  
• Heavy reliance on context-sensitive clicking (making it impossible to use keyboard shortcuts even if they were terrible key choices)
  
• Design by flashiness instead of practicality (making things more 'interact-y' and shiny instead of more intuitive)
  
• Selection jumping on scrolling selection (jumping back to the beginning of a short line while you were trying to select a long horizontal string, resulting in many failed attempts)
  
• The entire shared library model of program installation (the source of the registry, all "dll" problems, and the overall difficulty of installing and uninstalling programs)
  
• Focus stealing
  
• Popups by the system explaining that Windows did something correctly (I never, repeat, never want to be told that an automatic process was, in fact, finished automatically. It should be, you know, completely automatic, aka silent and effective)
  
• Program overreach as a standard (following Microsoft's example, it seems every program needs to be started up when I first turn on my computer, because obviously I'll be using that particular program every single time I use the operating system)
  

Here are the stupid problems with OS X:

• The Dock. (I never really did use it, taking advantage of much better methods, OS 10.7 is debuting two new methods of program access that hopefully will remove the dock's influence considerably.)
  
• Any form of distracting alerts. There are considerably less in OS X than on Windows, but Time Machine and Safari's alerts are completely unnecessary.
  
• Apple lockouts of certain low-level APIs. It's the reason Flash is (currently) so slow and resource hungry on OS X. Thankfully Apple did an about face recently.
  
• iTunes. It was an ok music storing program. Now that they have it running everything else (movies, tv, games, phones, ringtones, apps), it is busting at the seams and doing nearly nothing well (the problem with convergence software). Apple would do well to break iTunes up into several, more specialized programs.
  

EDIT

I just HAD to respond to this one.

I have no idea why Apple uses things like PowerPC, or the like.  Nobody supports it, can't do much that Apple didn't program for you.  They use Intel now, I have no problem with Intel, I just have problems with PowerPC.

That's not true. Lots of people supported PowerPC. It's just an older line. While the rest of the industry (Windows) standardized on Intel-based architecture, Apple stayed with their custom chip manufacturer. The PowerPC's were fast for their time, they just didn't have an Intel or AMD sticker on them.

As for the User Interface with Macs, I have noticed a few things I found humorous.  First off, the mouse.  Why does it have one clicker?  It seems pretty counter productive if you have one clicker, yet macs can right click as well, control click just doesn't cut it sometimes, like when you only have one hand to do things with and you just need to copy and paste something.

Apple went with a one-click interface because it forced software developers to make software that was easy to use, lacking hidden, context sensitive options that, for anyone who doesn't happen to use Windows, would find confusing (they did months of testing to find this out). HOWEVER, they've known forever that some people want more than one button on their mice. That's why their operating systems have supported multi-button mice since the 90's. They just didn't use to ship mice with more than one button. This has all changed since 2005, when their standard mouse came with 3 buttons and a scroll ball. All Apple mice made today have at least two buttons, and they have varying degrees of multi-touch and gesture recognition. Find that in a standard Windows mouse.

Why would you need a mouse to copy and paste something?! Keyboard shortcuts! They even work on Windows. If convenience and speed is your complaint, you need to actually focus on the features that are most convenient and fast (the keyboard).

I also noticed that Macs have 16 function keys, 16!  Why would one need so many function keys?  Especially if you're like me and are using a Mac keyboard on your Windows machine, you can't print screen anymore, that's the F14 button.  Can't scroll lock anymore, that's F15, and you can't pause/break anymore, that's F16.  I realized also, that macs lack these features.

Why would anyone need more than one mouse button?! Oh right, they don't. It's a CONVENIENCE thing. The exact same reason why there are so many function buttons. Those extra keys are there so you can assign functionality to them, like the functions you mention.

Print Screen - a one-size fits all solution that is replaced by a whole program in OS X: Grab, which allows you to adjust many options of screen capture as well of what region is recorded

Scroll Lock - From Wikipedia: "The Scroll Lock key was meant to lock all scrolling techniques, and is a remnant from the original IBM PC keyboard, though it is not used by most modern-day software." I've never actually used this button.

Pause/Break - More or less replaced by the Spacebar on OS X

And don't forget, this is a KEYBOARD, not an OS UI. Macs can use IBM keyboards. Windows can use an Apple keyboard. Just like Macs can use mice with pretty much any number of buttons, so long as the manufacturer of the 81-button mouse monstrosity actually writes a driver for OS X.

[Sabre]

Why would anyone need more than one mouse button?! Oh right, they don't.

This is one I have issue with. You could say you don't need 2 arms, but it's much more effective. Hell, going back to pre-scroll wheel days feels like a step back to me. Just because you don't use it for most things doesn't mean it's the effecient way to do things. Going back to arms as an example. Yes, you do most things with your right arm, but when you have to open a jar or a can, isn't having 2 arms much easier then having to find a vice? And isn't having teeth handy when using tape?

[Arashikage]

And just to add to Sabre's point, I game, so I need 2 mouse buttons, you can't use the sights on any gun with just one mouse button, you'd need a keyboard button.  To add this instead of just keeping the second mouse button, would confuse most gamers, it's extremely inconvenient also, to have to stop moving to press a button to use the sights then start firing again. 

[Samantha Weltzin]

I think you guys missed Mr. Krystal's point. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Krystal, but I think you were saying that additional options are not a bad thing, in response to the whole "Why so many function keys?" complaint. Sure, that many function keys aren't necessary, but to have them isn't a -bad- thing, just like having two mouse buttons isn't necessary.

Also, Arashikage: You gonna address the rest of Mr. Krystal's post, or do you pretty much concede that he was right on most everything? This is, after all, the debate sub-forum. :3

[Arashikage]

Well, to be blunt, Mr. Krystal's post made me want to go cry in a corner... I don't have much to argue with so.... GF, Mr. Krystal

[Mr. Krystal]

Well, to be blunt, Mr. Krystal's post made me want to go cry in a corner... I don't have much to argue with so.... GF, Mr. Krystal

I don't know what GF means, but there there, don't be sad. If you haven't used a Mac in the last 5 years, you wouldn't have known that stuff. Most of what you said just irked me because not only are they untrue, they were stated as if Apple had no real reasoning behind their decisions.

@Sabre

I use 'want' and 'need' for their literal meanings. Wants are things that are not required for the stated goal. Needs are things that are required for the stated goal. Conveniences shift wants towards needs, but they remain wants nonetheless.

[Sabre]

@Sabre

I use 'want' and 'need' for their literal meanings. Wants are things that are not required for the stated goal. Needs are things that are required for the stated goal. Conveniences shift wants towards needs, but they remain wants nonetheless.

That's a feeble excuse and you know it. Technically, using that logic, you don't need a computer. If you do, you don't need a mouse at all. Assuming you do for sake of argument, it would also assume you would need to be effiecent in any task where a computer is vital, therefor the 2+ are required.

[ThePointingMan]

I shudder at the thought of one mouse button.

And don't forget, this is a KEYBOARD, not an OS UI. Macs can use IBM keyboards. Windows can use an Apple keyboard. Just like Macs can use mice with pretty much any number of buttons, so long as the manufacturer of the 81-button mouse monstrosity actually writes a driver for OS X.

And that's what I love, I never use my Mac with a Mac's mouse, I use my P.C.'s, but the Mac keyboard, I do love those, and I would use it instead of my current keyboard if it weren't for the fact that my dad needs it.  Why wouldn't you want 16 Function keys, the fact that pressing control and then a number replaces alt tab is nice too, one window for each button (what happens when you 'ave more windows then numbers?)

I prefer the OS of Windows though.

@Sabre

I use 'want' and 'need' for their literal meanings. Wants are things that are not required for the stated goal. Needs are things that are required for the stated goal. Conveniences shift wants towards needs, but they remain wants nonetheless.

Also... Pretty sure in Saber's example he took that into account, but I also think Sabre took Mr.K's quote out of context, cause he just stated what Mr.K was saying with the rest of his statement.

Just a standbyers thoughts.

[Arashikage]

I don't know what GF means, but there there, don't be sad. If you haven't used a Mac in the last 5 years, you wouldn't have known that stuff. Most of what you said just irked me because not only are they untrue, they were stated as if Apple had no real reasoning behind their decisions.

GF is a term mostly used in a game I used to play known as Runescape.  It means Good Fight, people normally say it seconds before they're killed lol.  And the reasoning behind me saying all that was because my dad just got a job working for Yale a while ago, and since then he's been like, Mr. Mac, Apple this, Apple that, HEIL Steve Jobs!  And all that, so I've come to dislike Macs not because of what they are, but because my dad keeps slamming windows just because it's not exactly what he wants in an OS yet I still use it.

[Steve]

I've come to dislike Macs not because of what they are, but because my dad keeps slamming windows just because it's not exactly what he wants in an OS yet I still use it.

That's exactly the same reason for why I have come to dislike macs a little bit. People that have them (usually/sometimes) brag about them so much. It's like the classic stereotype:

Windows=lol no one can play like us

mac= lol, u use windows? u suck

linux= we pwn you! haxxors (however is spelled )

I even know some teachers at my IT classes that brag about macs, so it's not only on the internet communities, it's almost everyone. Something funny tho, is, people that really know how to use macs, are the ones that DON'T brag about them.

[Ellipzocore]

I prefer PCs over Macs due to me being around a PC most of my life and I only know how to use a PC.

Macs are more expensive, but they look nicer and they get less viruses. (Presumably because most of the population uses a PC. )

PCs are inexpensive and can do many more functions that a Mac cannot do. A many more games are designed for the PC than a Mac. Unfortunately, the downside to them are (Like I stated before) many viruses they can get and they tend to be a bit more advanced. So a Mac user might have a hard time switching to a PC.

It is all about personal preference. I playfully give Mac users a hard time, only because of this whole "PC VS. MAC OMG!!1"

[Geo Stelar]

I prefer PC

I'm too lazy to post why :oops:

[Arashikage]

I prefer PC

I'm too lazy to post why

Then why post in a debate topic?  At least give us reasons why you prefer PC otherwise your whole argument is invalid

[Mr. Krystal]

That's a feeble excuse and you know it. Technically, using that logic, you don't need a computer. If you do, you don't need a mouse at all. Assuming you do for sake of argument, it would also assume you would need to be effiecent in any task where a computer is vital, therefor the 2+ are required.

Excuse? It's how I live my life! I *don't* need a computer. Computers are very much in my 'want list' of life. Food, shelter, water, etc are on my 'need list.' However, if my stated goal is to have a job in the computer industry, a computer is a need for me and my situation. If you have software that requires a two button mouse because the programmers decided to require it, and if the goal of the user is to use that particular program, then a two button mouse is a need. However, there are virtually no computing tasks that can't be accomplished without two mouse buttons, even in applications that assume two mouse buttons exist. That is why, in general, I would term a second mouse button a want over a need.

From personal experience, I was equally as fast, or more fast when I was using a single-button combination with vast numbers of shortcuts and keypress-mouse combos than I am with my two button mouse. However, having a two button mouse is sometimes more convenient, to the detriment of speed and accuracy.

I like to think I've graduated from mindless bashing of any particular company or product, or fanboyishness towards others. But when someone says something that is simply wrong, I feel the need to point it out. As I said earlier before pointing out failures in BOTH OSs is: if you like something, use it, but have a good reason for liking it (or alternatively, for not liking the alternative).

Also, I'm excited for Chrome OS, which can be downloaded as Beta now, but will really be available probably sometime in 2011 or 2012. The security, upgrade, and speed models of Chrome OS blows the pants off both Windows and OS X. It does all the practical things that any other OS will do, and there is almost limitless possibilities for other operations, as time goes on and more support is given.

[Milkyway64]

The security, upgrade, and speed models of Chrome OS blows the pants off both Windows and OS X.

=3

...

Oh, uh, right. I agree and stuff, although I like my second mouse button for gaming reasons especially. I guess.

[Fox-Shot]

Even though I'm a Windows fan, I'm getting really tired of everyone complaining about a one button mouse, they aren't used anymore, and if you bought a Mac right now, you could plug in your old Windows mouse and it should work just fine.  I swear it's like a broken record, find something about other hardware or the actual OS you dislike.

[Nova]

MACs have less viruses for them,

[Mr. Krystal]

For the record:

Number of viruses for the OS X:

Around a dozen proof-of-concept viruses, perhaps one or two in the wild. All other exploits are malware that has to be manually installed or viruses that affect non-Apple products equally (such as Flash-based viruses).

Number of viruses for Windows:

At least 50,000

Number of viruses for Linux:

Perhaps 40 or so, though which ones would be compatible would be difficult to determine because there are so many versions of Linux