RPG Elements Bad - Symbolism Good?

[Sabre]

The show I hate so much has popped up again with 2 opinions and once again I completely disagree with it.

Basicly, they say that character progression (RPG elements they call them just so they can make a another unrelated BS point in a tagent) is lazy and bad game design. I disagree. True some games that use this do it badly, but some games are very complex and thus character progression allows them to introduce them at a good pace. To use CoD as an example. Throw someone into the MP game with all those options and they will be lost. Give them 3 classes and introduce new stuff at intervals allows the designer to drip feed you the stuff at a managable rate early on, and give you a goal for later in the game. If you are playing a game you hate just to watch numbers go up then that's your choice. I don't do it, but if that's fun for you, who's to say it is a bad thing?

Another video they dedicate to a pro sybolism rant. Of course, Silent Hill 2 features heavily. If you haven't guessed yet, I hate symbolism because, oddly enough, it's lazy and bullies people to agree. I don't like Silent Hill 2 much due to it being silly to me. A man with a Toblerone for a face is a stupid villain. I find good ol' Bill Berkin from RE2 scarier. I have no problem with people who like it, but this is where my issue comes in. Don't like SH2? Find it silly? You're an idiot who "doesn't get it". This is a trick that is popular with bad indie games atm. Make a bad game, make claims of being artsy, and silence negative opinion as ignorant masses.

So, I put it to you. Given the option to have a game with character progression or symbolism, which would you pick?

eg. Given the option, I would pick Resident Evil 4 over Silent Hill 2.

[Xortberg]

It depends on what I want out of the game in question, and what the game tries to deliver. If it's some sort of psychological horror game, e.g. the Silent Hill series or something, symbolism is ideal, as abstract concepts are more difficult for me to grasp, and fall under the 'unknown' category that humans are so afraid of. If it's an RPG, a little symbolism is fine, but mostly character progression, since the idea in most RPGs is to level your guys up and beat next boss.

That's only two genres, though. RE4 is hardly psychological, and only barely borders on survival horror like the rest of the series, instead falling more into the action genre. As such, symbolism has less of a place in it, since the main idea of the game is to tell a story and let you kick some ass.

In short, it's impossible to decide which is better, since it's all personal preference. I disagree on your statement that symbolism is 'lazy and bullies people to agree' on the basis that, unless the symbols have a single set purpose which is explained clearly, it's mostly up to interpretation anyway. It's not lazy if whoever came up with the concepts and symbols did it right, because if they did, each symbol means something to them personally, and it doesn't bully anyone into agreeing because basically anything in the world is up to interpretation. Take Fahrenheit 451 as a non-game related example. The common belief is that it's supposed to be about censorship, but the author has said that he meant for it to be about technological advances replacing books. Both interpretations are correct, so long as you can back up your claims with evidence, and as long as a person doesn't try to force anyone to agree, then it's perfectly okay.

[Sabre]

True, but we could argue over which is more fun. 2 of my all time greatest favouritest most greatest games ever evers. Just tried to think of 1 in the same gen of consoles as SH2. As I said, I have no issue with symolism and the people who like it. Each to his own. SH2 is an example of a game with sybolism that the people who bring it up do so for either psudo intelectual wanking and to beat down negative opinion. I could have used Raidiator, or The Path, but I've not played those.

[Matrilwood]

Critics reckon everything is bad. What about the critic who walked out of the cinema when they where showing StarWars Episode 4?

[Robert Monroe]

Symbolism isn't lazy and it doesn't bully anyone. Like anything else, it can be well done or poorly done, and in the end is up to interpertation. That's why its called -symbolism-. Its a literary device, like a metaphor.