Possible Star Fox movie. Spread the word.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

R3dfive I could kiss you for that because now I don't have to go through the trouble of posting those quotes. XD

Sorry couldn't resist. 

But yes to reinforce the point those lines are flirtatious. It's pretty plain to see.

btw ArwingCommander.......you do know it's a FAN film right? 

Oh well, as long as whoever they get for Wolf makes him vicious.

[Milkyway64]

...this is still flirtatious, don't you think?

So being flirtacious means that she is ONLY flirtacious at ALL TIMES and thus leaves no room for any other emotion or motive or anything else that makes a multi layered character, right.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

True, maybe she needs to be a bit bi@#$y with Falco for something that's gone wrong with their relationship.

[Scott7]

Having a tendency to flirt often.

Gotta love wiktionary...

[Zzz]

So being flirtacious means that she is ONLY flirtacious at ALL TIMES and thus leaves no room for any other emotion or motive or anything else that makes a multi layered character, right.

I only proved that it is NOT a matter of interpretation that she's sassy in the games.

I never said that this crosses out any other attributes. what the heck, bro?

[Xortberg]

I only proved that it is NOT a matter of interpretation that she's sassy in the games.

I never said that this crosses out any other attributes. what the heck, bro?

The case here is that Falcory stated that the personalities of Falco and Katt were clearly demonstrated in SF:64, but they weren't. One aspect of their personalities was explored: Falco's a jerk with a heart of gold and Katt is sassy and flirtatious. That single personality trait for each of them means that any personality that is based on that game is either completely one-dimensional or completely fanon.

[Falcory]

So being flirtacious means that she is ONLY flirtacious at ALL TIMES and thus leaves no room for any other emotion or motive or anything else that makes a multi layered character, right.

First of all. Because she was in 64, that's all anyone would have to assume. So it's safer if you want to get close to someone's personality that you base them off what source material you have for them, not by deviating and making the personality what you think will make a good plot-line. Now doing the LATTER, is personal interpretation.

Secondly, Katt although not as flirtatious as she was in 64 has shown in latter media that she does like Falco and has a crush on him. Now based on that knowledge it's pretty safe to assume she was trying to "flirt" to get Falco's attention in 64, thus meaning she couldn't have possibly been mad at him for any said mistake Falco did in the past. THAT's what deviating from the character.

[Zzz]

GUYS, before we continue it's best to check WHO wrote WHAT. We ALL might end up adressing the wrong people o_O

[Milkyway64]

First of all. Because she was in 64, that's all anyone would have to assume. So it's safer if you want to get close to someone's personality that you base them off what source material you have for them, not by deviating and making the personality what you think will make a good plot-line. Now doing the LATTER, is personal interpretation.

And that's exactly what they have to do to make this any good. Just going off that ONE ASPECT and assuming that's all there is to her makes her very much cardboard and uninteresting.

Secondly, Katt although not as flirtatious as she was in 64 has shown in latter media that she does like Falco and has a crush on him. Now based on that knowledge it's pretty safe to assume she was trying to "flirt" to get Falco's attention in 64, thus meaning she couldn't have possibly been mad at him for any said mistake Falco did in the past. THAT's what deviating from the character.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't most of her attention focused on Fox? Or maybe it's a love triangle now. Or, just -maybe- you're reading too far into a one dimensional character in a game that's totally cool with that fact, as it didn't -care- about it's characters so much as it did lasers and what they were supposed to hit. This movie doesn't HAVE gameplay to handwave it, it has to add substance to the characters and compared to what they could be doing, they're doing a good job.

[Falcory]

And that's exactly what they have to do to make this any good. Just going off that ONE ASPECT and assuming that's all there is to her makes her very much cardboard and uninteresting.

Actually now you're the one assuming. You're assuming that they have to add things to her character in order for an interesting movie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't most of her attention focused on Fox? Or maybe it's a love triangle now. Or, just -maybe- you're reading too far into a one dimensional character in a game that's totally cool with that fact, as it didn't -care- about it's characters so much as it did lasers and what they were supposed to hit. This movie doesn't HAVE gameplay to handwave it, it has to add substance to the characters and compared to what they could be doing, they're doing a good job.

No offense but I do think you're wrong. She spoke to Fox a few times only to give instructions on which lights to knock out and to make a remark about him hitting her with his lasers. Other than that, it was all on Falco. She even only says "Take Care" to him, unlike a person who would just say "Take Care" in general.

And uhhh we haven't really even seen that much produced for this movie project yet. How can you tell if they're doing a good job or not?  :?

[Sluggsnipa]

...Sorry to say this, but his storyboard scrip is just more than crap.

I read the somewhat-on-going script he uploaded on his website and for some reason everything is just a pain in my eyes, I can't stand it in any perspectives.

He starts the story with an insane sounding plot that Andross worked on something like "telekinesis powers" that made him going insane and was lately found wounded by the "Cornerian Command Officials". I mean okay, there are some things that remains on the original plot, but Andross wasn't really "insane" at all, and General Pepper was the one who banned him to Venom, I can't remember a "Hall of Justice" in the games story.

[glow=red,2,300]AND THEN KRYSTAL CAME[/glow]

BUT there are other facts that make it look like crap for me.

Not only has he screwed the story of Slippy Toad and his father, Beltino Toad, who originally worked on the Arwings, Landmasters etc etc and replaces Beltino with an guy called "Dr. Armon Grizico" who worked at Space Dynamics co. Ltd., no, he also makes a whole DRAMA STORY out of the relationship of Katt Monroe and Falco Lombardi, something like she blames him for her brother's dead and HE needs to prove his innocence to "his love". I mean WHAT THE F*CK is he thinking!? Is this some kind of bad joke?

Also he let it looks like that Slippy and Fox never knew each other since the Cornerian Academy/childhood days! Peppy as the COMMANDER of the StarFox Team? Is he trying to make a mix between StarFox 1, StarFox64 and StarFox Command?

In my eyes this guy is trying to ruin the franchise with this "movie project". I don't care if he is a student and has a storyboarder on his side who has 16 years of knowledge about it (Though his Storyboard for SAW II was just CRAP!), the fact is that he is trying to make a Drama-Love-Story with Falco and Katt with things that NEVER happened or have been mentioned in any of the games, and that he is replacing Slippy's father with a guy no one knows.

Sorry guys, you can support him if ya all want to see a crap and confusing story of our beloved StarFox franchise, but for me, he is just a Franchise KILLER. Nothing of his story concept makes me wanna take a look on his "wohooooooo!!!!"-called project.

I want to see something that makes the characters interesting/acting in the way we know them and that REALLY has something to do with the original plot of the games, not something that goes wishy-washy with events that never existed. It's the same situation with the Resident Evil and Silent Hill movies. I got TOO MANY bad experiences with things like that and now after I read his "Starfox Summary Plot" I'm even more afraid that the franchise gets raped.

At least that's my honest opinion about his "wonderful"-praised project. Hate me if you want to, but I'm a bloody realistic human when it comes down to things like that.

Falco as a murderer? What the hell are you thinking about him?? He may be an ass sometimes, but he couldn't kill anyone, no matter how much he hates someone.

Hey, let me tell you something that I could translate out from a Japanese informationsite about Falco. First of, he was the leader of a motorcycle gang called "FREE AS A BIRD", and second he leaved the group because he wanted to make some career with the famous StarFox team. But I guess it shouldn't be something new for you.

You think he could kill someone? Don't you think that you're thinking a bit TOO bad about him and his past? Sure, we really don't know much about his past, maybe he was some kind of small criminal in his past, but he couldn't kill someone because he still has some calm behavior. Wow, sounds like you want to say that he has the LEON POWALSKI-SYNDROME. Falco would punch someones face if it needs to be, but nothing more.

Ok,I have to agree with the lady,THEY SCREWED THE F*CK out of the SF64 story.

[Zzz]

Oh well, as long as whoever they get for Wolf makes him vicious.

Doesn't look like there's going to be Starwolf in this T_T

[Xortberg]

Actually now you're the one assuming. You're assuming that they have to add things to her character in order for an interesting movie.

In a technical sense, you're correct; there's no definitive proof that a one-dimensional character couldn't totally interest someone, because interesting is all opinion. Of course, in practice, not many happy with a one-dimensional, single faceted character. That's why Twilight always gets so much hate. None of the characters are anything but "I love him," and "I love her, but she doesn't love me." It takes depth to make anything of worth, bro, and depth is one thing SF just doesn't have.

No offense but I do think you're wrong. She spoke to Fox a few times only to give instructions on which lights to knock out and to make a remark about him hitting her with his lasers. Other than that, it was all on Falco. She even only says "Take Care" to him, unlike a person who would just say "Take Care" in general.

And uhhh we haven't really even seen that much produced for this movie project yet? How can you tell if they're doing a good job or not? 

If he can't decide if they're doing a good job or not then you can't decide that they aren't staying true to the original characters.

[Milkyway64]

And uhhh we haven't really even seen that much produced for this movie project yet. How can you tell if they're doing a good job or not? 

Because I've seen a few other pitches that BLEW ASS. A backstory such as this is actually a decent idea. A movie pitch I have once saw turning Fox into an emo philosopher while Krystal makes the income at a nightclub accompanied by fucking Green Day is a terrible idea. The difference is this one actually tries to make interesting, dramatic, movie-worthy characters out of the cardboard space shooters, while the latter is an animated grimdark fanfic better left to using original characters. The inconsistencies in that pitch were numerous and AWFUL. The ones here are relatively few and minor.

[Scott7]

Yeah... I'm not really sure this is going to work out. If Nintendo has said no before, I'm pretty sure they're going to say the same thing again....

[Falcory]

In a technical sense, you're correct; there's no definitive proof that a one-dimensional character couldn't totally interest someone, because interesting is all opinion. Of course, in practice, not many happy with a one-dimensional, single faceted character. That's why Twilight always gets so much hate. None of the characters are anything but "I love him," and "I love her, but she doesn't love me." It takes depth to make anything of worth, bro, and depth is one thing SF just doesn't have.

And just look at how popular that franchise is. (Although I never seen or never will see a Twilight Film. XD)

But hey, even though I'm not sure, maybe the Twilight Films stuck close to the books. Maybe that's why they DO so well. Just a thought.

If he can't decide if they're doing a good job or not then you can't decide that they aren't staying true to the original characters.

Well there's only been a short summary of the script and some storyboards, so it's too early to tell if he's doing a "good job" yet, but I (among others as well)  have said they AREN'T sticking to the original characters based on what we've read in the summary. So yes we kind of can, and at the moment I'm sort of failing to make sense of your logic on that. 

Because I've seen a few other pitches that BLEW ASS. A backstory such as this is actually a decent idea. A movie pitch I have once saw turning Fox into an emo philosopher while Krystal makes the income at a nightclub accompanied by fucking Green Day is a terrible idea. The difference is this one actually tries to make interesting, dramatic, movie-worthy characters out of the cardboard space shooters, while the latter is an animated grimdark fanfic better left to using original characters. The inconsistencies in that pitch were numerous and AWFUL. The ones here are relatively few and minor.

So basically you're just saying it's the best Starfox movie plot you've seen thus far. That's probably most likely true, but what I've pointed out earlier still stands. He's not really sticking to the personality of the two characters and even though it may be the best SF plot out there now......doesn't mean it doesn't have kinks.

[Zzz]

while Krystal makes the income at a nightclub

And that's NOT in-character? :trollface:

[Xortberg]

Yeah... I'm not really sure this is going to work out. If Nintendo has said no before, I'm pretty sure they're going to say the same thing again....

I would say fan support can change their minds, but then Mother 3 would pull me aside for a nice long talk. One that I couldn't understand, because despite all the fans crying for it, that game is Japan only.

And just look at how popular that franchise is. (Although I never seen or never will see a Twilight Film. XD)

But hey, even though I'm not sure, maybe the Twilight Films stuck close to the books. Maybe that's why they DO so well. Just a thought.

They stick to the books reasonably well, but they're successful because they are a teenage girl's wet dream. Notice how very few guys like them, yeah? That's because guys (with the exception, of course, of homosexuals) aren't excited at buff shirtless Native American teenagers.

Well there's only been a short summary of the script and some storyboards, so it's too early to tell if he's doing a "good job" yet, but I (among others as well)  have said they AREN'T sticking to the original characters based on what we've read in the summary. So yes we kind of can, and at the moment I'm sort of failing to make sense of your logic on that. 

If Milky doesn't have enough information to decide if the movie looks good, then neither do you. Simple.

So basically you're just saying it's the best Starfox movie plot you've seen thus far. That's probably most likely true, but what I've pointed out earlier still stands. He's not really sticking to the personality of the two characters and even though it may be the best SF plot out there now......doesn't mean it doesn't have kinks.

As we've said before: We know relatively shit about these two characters' personalities. Is it possible to be a jerk and have more depth to your character than just that one defining trait? Yes. Is it possible to be flirty without that being your only selling point? Yes. Just because they sometimes fit those descriptions doesn't mean they have to fit them all the time.

[Falcory]

They stick to the books reasonably well, but they're successful because they are a teenage girl's wet dream. Notice how very few guys like them, yeah? That's because guys (with the exception, of course, of homosexuals) aren't excited at buff shirtless Native American teenagers.

I actually know a couple of guys into it, so I'm a little inclined to believe what you first said. Btw.....you didn't actually read the books yourself did you? 

If Milky doesn't have enough information to decide if the movie looks good, then neither do you. Simple.

Uh.....I never said the movie was gonna be bad bro. I only said that they weren't sticking close to Falco and Katt's personalities and that I wasn't too crazy about the idea.

As we've said before: We know relatively shit about these two characters' personalities. Is it possible to be a jerk and have more depth to your character than just that one defining trait? Yes. Is it possible to be flirty without that being your only selling point? Yes. Just because they sometimes fit those descriptions doesn't mean they have to fit them all the time.

You say this like we don't know enough to determine their personality first of all.  I mean.....Falco and Katt HAVE been in other media man. Those were relatively enough to get a good grasp on their personalities.

But really this one-sided thing you're bringing up, isn't something that's worth talking about. That's something you bring up if you're talking about someone in reality. 

Truthfully what you would do is reproduce Katt's personality from the 64 game. (Where the movie plot is taken from.) Talking about the other aspects of her personality is really relevant. What's relevant is how Katt acted in 64 since that's where the source material is coming from. 

[KokoaMinto]

Oh well, as long as whoever they get for Wolf makes him vicious.

Star Wolf won't appear in the "movie".

Ok,I have to agree with the lady,THEY SCREWED THE F*CK out of the SF64 story.

Why did you add that Krystal part into my quote? I never said anything about her in my original post because she never was mentioned in the summary plot of that guy who wants to make this "movie". (Is someone manipulating my original posting while I was offline or what's going on here?)

And that's exactly what they have to do to make this any good. Just going off that ONE ASPECT and assuming that's all there is to her makes her very much cardboard and uninteresting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't most of her attention focused on Fox? Or maybe it's a love triangle now. Or, just -maybe- you're reading too far into a one dimensional character in a game that's totally cool with that fact, as it didn't -care- about it's characters so much as it did lasers and what they were supposed to hit. This movie doesn't HAVE gameplay to handwave it, it has to add substance to the characters and compared to what they could be doing, they're doing a good job.

Katt only said that as a reward if you saved her, and she always was a little flirty with boys, this isn't something new. Just because she said that to Fox doesn't mean that she had an eye for him, she always looked out for Falco and no one else, that's why she wants to join StarFox - To be near him.

You know, the MANGA of StarFox "Farewell, beloved Falco" nearly showed the true personalities of the characters, even Katt's personality got deeper into the act. A MANGA is an official comic that was hired by a company with a strict storyboard concept, a DOUJINSHI was created by a fan without the storyboard from an official company. So in fact "Farewell, beloved Falco" was created by Nintendo and shows the real relationship about Katt and Falco, it's an official plot and not created by a fan.

In the Flashback part Katt told Falco that she has a crush on him, and he told her that he isn't her "lovebird". Katt is sassy, likes to flirt with guys and also can be really serious - those are reactions/behaviours that weren't very much seen in the games before, but it all was shown in the MANGA. Didn't she said that she found someone who is really important to her in the MANGA? Yes, but it wasn't Falco anymore, it was a blue cat boy that got called COOL by some fans.

The MANGA brought depth into Katt's and Falco's personalities AND into their relationship. Just because this event never happened in a game doesn't mean that this is "just a story", as long as NINTENDO had something to do with the storyboard of this MANGA it's an OFFICIAL fact. Otherwise you couldn't see a "© NINTENDO" on the cover of the MANGA.

So NINTENDO was seriously trying to place the relationship between Falco and Katt into the spotlight to make people understand that they do care about each other as friends (though Katt is trying to catch his attention in COMMAND again). Fact is both characters got very much into the spotlight in this MANGA adaption and their personalities got worked over, so we don't need a drama-llama-love-story between those two in a "movie".

That's all I have to say about this Falco/Katt dilemma here. Nuff said.

[Xortberg]

I actually know a couple of guys into it, so I'm a little inclined to believe what you first said. Btw.....you didn't actually read the books yourself did you? 

Of course I did. I watched the first movie as well, though after finishing it I realized that it was arguably worse than the books, so I stopped watching them. How could you expect me to make an informed judgment of them having not read them?

Uh.....I never said the movie was gonna be bad bro. I only said that they weren't sticking close to Falco and Katt's personalities and that I wasn't too crazy about the idea.

And if there isn't enough material to decide whether or not the movie will be good then there's most definitely not enough info to tell if the characters are going to be portrayed accurately. Production and actors and other such things aside and focusing only on plot, characters are extremely important to the quality of a literary work, and if there's enough information to tell if the characters are going to be good or not then it's pretty safe to make a rough guess of how good the movie's going to be.

You say this like we don't know enough to determine their personality first of all.  I mean.....Falco and Katt HAVE been in other media man. Those were relatively enough to get a good grasp on their personalities.

Maybe so, but we're talking SF:64 here, and unless you provide sources for a person who knows absolutely nothing about these other media then you can just stop that argument right there. Evidence, bro. You needs it.

But really this one-sided thing you're bringing up, isn't something that's worth talking about. That's something you bring up if you're talking about someone in reality. 

No. No no no. Tell me, is it good to make an RP character whose only selling point is that he's a jerk? What about one who only works with machines and that's it? Characters in any media - books, television, movies, whatever - need to be more than just one dimensional. I know I'm dipping into personal preference here, but for an oft-repeated example of mine, I love Digimon, with one exception: season 4. The characters were just a stereotype given an avatar and badly written dialogue. In a game, like SF, that's okay, since gameplay is the main selling point of games. This is literary, though. This needs depth.

Truthfully what you would do is reproduce Katt's personality from the 64 game. (Where the movie plot is taken from.) Talking about the other aspects of her personality is really relevant. What's relevant is how Katt acted in 64 since that's where the source material is coming from.

The source material is coming from the entire SF canon, hopefully. SF:64 alone has nowhere near enough personality development for a movie. The events are based on the events in 64, but the characters existed, in-universe, of course, before that. There was more to them than what is seen in the games, like - and you might think I'm a bit crazy for even suggesting this - a PAST. You know, those things everyone has? Events that happened to them in the past tense and helped to define who that person is? Like how a boy who is orphaned by an evil warlord is shaped by that event into a vengeance-fueled killing machine? Yeah, Katt and Falco have those. They might even be a bit different than what you envisioned them to be, too! And they need one to be believable in their interaction. That means using more than just SF:64. Hell, it even means claiming artistic license and using a little bit of interpretation. Just because Falco and Katt have a past you don't like doesn't mean it's badly portraying their personalities; it's making their personalities more believable by giving them past experience to draw on to determine their actions.

[Milkyway64]

And that's NOT in-character?

Believe it or not, no. It is out of character for what we were explicitly told, although it could easily happen with a few retcons.

Katt only said that as a reward if you saved her, and she always was a little flirty with boys, this isn't something new. Just because she said that to Fox doesn't mean that she had an eye for him, she always looked out for Falco and no one else, that's why she wants to join StarFox - To be near him.

What does this prove? Wasn't it ME on the side arguing the two had a potential relationship?

You know, the MANGA of StarFox "Farewell, beloved Falco" nearly showed the true personalities of the characters, even Katt's personality got deeper into the act. A MANGA is an official comic that was hired by a company with a strict storyboard concept, a DOUJINSHI was created by a fan without the storyboard from an official company. So in fact "Farewell, beloved Falco" was created by Nintendo and shows the real relationship about Katt and Falco, it's an official plot and not created by a fan.

And? You know what else is official? Katt's fur color going from pink to grey in command, and that is more official than MANGAs. Her personality was a bit different too, so I guess Command Katt retcons that Manga adaptation right out of here.

The point is, there was never any debate about how canon this fan film is, only that the interpretation it brings is interesting and not too damaging to the source material. I don't particularly care if you know the words describing the two, it was never in doubt.

'sides that if it gets greenlighted, it'd be more than just a doujin anyway.

In the Flashback part Katt told Falco that she has a crush on him, and he told her that he isn't her "lovebird". Katt is sassy, likes to flirt with guys and also can be really serious - those are reactions/behaviours that weren't very much seen in the games before, but it all was shown in the MANGA. Didn't she said that she found someone who is really important to her in the MANGA? Yes, but it wasn't Falco anymore, it was a blue cat boy that got called COOL by some fans.

The MANGA brought depth into Katt's and Falco's personalities AND into their relationship. Just because this event never happened in a game doesn't mean that this is "just a story", as long as NINTENDO had something to do with the storyboard of this MANGA it's an OFFICIAL fact. Otherwise you couldn't see a "© NINTENDO" on the cover of the MANGA.

And THIS is what I've been arguing this whole time. THERE IS MORE TO KATT THAN BEING FLIRTY, and this fanfilm NEEDS to explore on that to not have her character bomb. If it's not strictly, 100% compatible with every little line she's said, only you care. Mangas are often retconned to hell anyway by visual media adaptations for entertainment's sake. As it seems, the only difference between this always emphasized, all caps MANGA and this fanfilm is it doesn't have the nintendo liscense on it, are you saying that if it gets greenlighted that will change?

So NINTENDO was seriously trying to place the relationship between Falco and Katt into the spotlight to make people understand that they do care about each other as friends (though Katt is trying to catch his attention in COMMAND again). Fact is both characters got very much into the spotlight in this MANGA adaption and their personalities got worked over, so we don't need a drama-llama-love-story between those two in a "movie".

I do not see your point, you are all over the place. So first, it's a relationship used only to establish them, they calm down, and then pursue eachother again? Since Command is the latest official word, wouldn't that mean that the "MANGA" got retconned exactly as I said it would and thus, open it up again for this fanfilm? Or are you seriously picking and choosing your sources, conveniently ignoring everything else?

[Scott7]

*clear's throat...*

'Arguing on the internet, is like playing in the Special Olympic's.

Even if you win... You're still retarded...

[Xortberg]

*clear's throat...*

Only that couldn't be more wrong. This quote is basically a "Get out of Jail" card for someone who feels they're either losing a debate or has some condescending attitude towards a simple debate. There is nothing about arguing on the Internet that sets it apart from any sort of argument. As long as structure, logic, and reason are used, it's perfectly fine.

[Scott7]

the point, is that there isn't to much of a point in arguing Heavily about something thats likely going to Become just a movie Styled Fanfiction. That's my point in the response anyway. The term used in the quote's point is that Putting alot of effort into and Argument on something like a forum is going to result in nothing....

And for the Record, I wasn't in the argument to begin with. So I'm pretty sure i'm not losing at anything.

And Why I'm even saying this? is so none of us get the Banhammer and Dz Doesn't get to stressed out again within a 24 hour period of time...