Worried

[Scott7]

ok Steve... I'll work on my quote elsewhere, and again I'm sorry about this... -_-'

[Xortberg]

ok Steve... I'll work on my quote elsewhere, and again I'm sorry about this... -_-'

No big deal. If anything else, you simply helped drive the "Ask them to stop" point home.

[Geo Stelar]

This is not to be a drama thread, or to make fun of one another. But to post my concerns about the site. I used to be a very active member of SF-O, I used to visit the lounge alot, Rec room, you name it. I was a frequent RPer. Alot of recent events have occurred, IRL and here. Mainly here. I am worried SF-O. (also this has no ties to Kid_Cortet, other concerns about this site are my main worries, not him and what he did)

Star Fox is a children's game, alot of the discussions here are targeted towards an adult community. We have kids 13, 15, young ages that are getting themselves involved in arguments, "discussions" that end up turning into drama. Wanna know what the main problem is........ Understanding that barrier. Those that continue to post and argue, it just ends up creates a vicious cycle. Not everyone needs to be right on this board. We are a community of Star Fox Fans, Let's enjoy the game that we all grew up to love and appreciate. Not ramble on about why you think your right and shove opinions down each others throats. I know I'm gonna get told "It creates discussion, and debates" My answer is this. Not all members are capable of handling debates and discussions like adults. There are children on this board that are getting caught in the middle of this, That needs to stop. Plain and simple

That is my primary concern, the other which is the RP section is posted in another thread

I love SF-O and it will always have a place in my heart, I just want to say.....can't we all just get along?

PS: I am not targeting a specific group of people, or the staff, or admins. I just wanted to voice my concerns and worries for the site.

I enjoy Star fox s much as i can. At times I feel like an 8-year old again every time I come across SF Assault or Command. However, I don't completely agree that this is a children's game. Almost anyone can enjoy this game, onlythat many of the players are in between 6-17 year olds. And yes, I blieve they are still considered as 'kids' today.

I can relate towards being in debates. I can handle them, but only to a certain point, in which I will try to get out of afterwards. I'm not one of the users who are involved in discussions that later turn out into drama. In fact, all of the debate (discussion is more like it) I've been in haven't yet turned out into drama, so I don't know how that is. I do believe in one thing, though; Different people, different opinions. And you gotta respect that, no matter what, unless they are very much mistaken.

Oh, and if you highly don't agree on something (unless your opinion is asked) or if you don't have anything good to say (unless it concerns you very much), just don't post anything, because it is one of the many causes of heated debates which turns into drama in some situations.

[FoxMcCloud]

I've been in haven't yet turned out into drama, so I don't know how that is. I do believe in one thing, though; Different people, different opinions. And you gotta respect that, no matter what, unless they are very much mistaken.

Oh, and if you highly don't agree on something (unless your opinion is asked) or if you don't have anything good to say (unless it concerns you very much), just don't post anything, because it is one of the many causes of heated debates which turns into drama in some situations.

Very true!

~~

On another note, what I meant by children's game, was for a younger audience. To be honest I consider a child someone until they are 18. I probably should have clarified that but no matter :D

[Falconman]

im 13!  for 13 yr olds!

srry for getting off topic

[DZComposer]

Uhm, don't do that again.

[Icy]

I'd like to say something, please.

I agree completely with FoxMcCloud. This is a forum targeted towards younger teens/kids. Or at least, the GAMES are targeted towards younger people. Obviously, there will be a lot of adults here, since the first game came out almost 20 years ago. But the current games are targeted to younger people, while the adults enjoy them because they are very familiar with Star Fox and love it.

We can do without drama and debate! What's the point of a debate, anyhow? Prove you're right? If so, proving something to someone who lives hundreds of miles away, doesn't even know your name, age, etc, is ridiculous. If that's NOT why, then why, really? What is the point of these blatant attempts to make someone mad? To spawn a debate which makes drama? I can't give any examples at the moment, but really…

And I know what would happen if I went into more detail, gave numerous examples, quotes, etc. I make this point and ask what is your point. Someone quotes something I said and probably ignores everything I said. When this is the truth here.

So please don't reply unless you have a good post ready.

I think DZComposer, our Administrator, says it best with his personal text. A shocked face of Slippy and "OMG! Drama!". If he continued that, it'd probably say "OMG! Drama! Let's get away from all this nonsense."

And that's exactly what all the debates are; nonsense. It does nothing for anyone to get into a debate, and voice your opinion. I realize this topic could be considered a debate, and I am voicing my opinion. It's up to you to figure that out.

These aren't my opinions, but facts based on what goes on. At least, through my eyes.

A normal topic spawns a debate when someone obviously asks for one with a crazy remark, the debate then takes over the topic, which then spawns drama, which gets the topic locked. That is ridiculous and should not be tolerated. I would be willing to bet that at least 35% of the topics created contain some sort of debate that spawns "drama".

This is not a 14-year-old's drama diary, this is a %#%^ing STAR FOX FORUM.

But that's just me.

On another note, off-topic remark: I knew a 5 year old (literally) who had a number of M rated games. He wanted me to play them with him and I was only 8 or 9. Ridiculous. His parents were oblivious to everything.

[Xortberg]

We can do without drama and debate! What's the point of a debate, anyhow? Prove you're right? If so, proving something to someone who lives hundreds of miles away, doesn't even know your name, age, etc, is ridiculous. If that's NOT why, then why, really? What is the point of these blatant attempts to make someone mad? To spawn a debate which makes drama? I can't give any examples at the moment, but really…

And I know what would happen if I went into more detail, gave numerous examples, quotes, etc. I make this point and ask what is your point. Someone quotes something I said and probably ignores everything I said. When this is the truth here.

So please don't reply unless you have a good post ready.

I generally don't go for flat-out insults, but this is one of the biggest loads of shit I've seen in a long time. Hating debate is fine if you don't like it, but don't come up in here acting like you know everything and that "this is the truth here." Debate is enjoyed by a good portion of our members, most of whom are senior members or very active contributors. We don't debate because we want everyone to agree with us. There are various reasons we do. I personally love the mental exercise. Some people like to debate in order to better understand both sides of the argument. But you coming up in here and saying that debate is pointless when you obviously don't know shit about it? Please, don't ask us to make a good reply when you don't even have a sound argument in the first place.

I think DZComposer, our Administrator, says it best with his personal text. A shocked face of Slippy and "OMG! Drama!". If he continued that, it'd probably say "OMG! Drama! Let's get away from all this nonsense."

And that's exactly what all the debates are; nonsense. It does nothing for anyone to get into a debate, and voice your opinion. I realize this topic could be considered a debate, and I am voicing my opinion. It's up to you to figure that out.

These aren't my opinions, but facts based on what goes on. At least, through my eyes.

DZ enjoys debate himself, if I'm interpreting what I've seen correctly. Nice try though. And again we have pointless, ignorant bashing of debate as if you're an authority on its worth.

A normal topic spawns a debate when someone obviously asks for one with a crazy remark, the debate then takes over the topic, which then spawns drama, which gets the topic locked. That is ridiculous and should not be tolerated. I would be willing to bet that at least 35% of the topics created contain some sort of debate that spawns "drama".

This is not a 14-year-old's drama diary, this is a %#%^ing STAR FOX FORUM.

But that's just me.

Yes, you're right. It's just you. As I said, several people here enjoy debate, and rarely are topics locked due to the debates contained therein. Most of the drama nowadays is coming from the RP section, something you'd know if you'd pull your head out of your ass for a few seconds and look around.

Again, I rarely drop to the level of flat-out insults, but you, sir, are being a cockfag. Don't like debate? Fine. Want to voice your opinions about it and maybe discuss the merits of debating, your views against mine? Fine, we can do that civilly. But when you come in acting like you know everything when you obviously fucking don't, badmouth one of my favorite pastimes and mental exercises, try to stifle intelligent discussion/debate, and put words into the mouths of those around you, know that you've crossed the line twice. Now, if you're willing to forgive my anger and drop your pretentious assumption that debate contains no intrinsic value, I'll apologize and we can continue this discussion like calm adults.

["User"]

While I'm in agreement with most of what Xort has to say I'm pretty sure Icy never had any negative intentions with his comment and I know you "rarely drop to the level of flat-out insults" Xort but really now ad hominem, no matter how "justifiable" it may seem, shouldn't be a part of anyone's vocabulary on SF-O.  I'm of the view there is always a nicer way to express one's point without resorting to personal attacks.  It's also my opinion that we as the staff really should crack down on Ad Hominem in general, no matter who it might be from - this also concerns possible "veiled" insults.

[Xortberg]

While I'm in agreement with most of what Xort has to say I'm pretty sure Icy never had any negative intentions with his comment and I know you "rarely drop to the level of flat-out insults" Xort but really now ad hominem, no matter how "justifiable" it may seem, shouldn't be a part of anyone's vocabulary on SF-O.  I'm of the view there is always a nicer way to express one's point without resorting to personal attacks.  It's also my opinion that we as the staff really should crack down on Ad Hominem in general, no matter who it might be from - this also concerns possible "veiled" insults.

I know he had no negative intentions on the whole; he just wants to do his part to help the board. That's why, after all that, I apologized. At least, as much as I can bring myself to apologize when in the grips of such potent nerd-rage. Yes, I could easily have avoided the personal attacks, but it pissed me off. Again, Icy, I have no problems if you come in, state your opinions, and then we discuss it all calmly and reason things out. You just didn't do that, and I snapped. I am sorry, so if, as I said, you're willing to forgive my anger and in turn drop your solid certainty that debate is pointless and discuss this, I'd be more than happy to.

[Icy]

That's the kind of reply I expected. You and a few others may enjoy debate, but a lot of people don't. Debates like "Define "Child"" should go in the mature section so younger people can't see it and get involved, even if they'd like to. I love debate, myself, but a lot of what I've seen on SF-O spawns too much and too deep of a debate. And too much debate spawns drama. To sum up my previous post, I do not think I know everything and didn't mean anything in a bad or negative way. I was just saying the facts "I" seem to see here. And acting like adults and discussing it is what I meant. Adult debates. Most debates on here are between adults, and kids or teenagers get involved, as FoxMcCloud states, and things go wrong. But if you want to discuss it, feel free. I'll participate if I need to. ;)

[Xortberg]

That's the kind of reply I expected. You and a few others may enjoy debate, but a lot of people don't.

It's really the kind of reply you can expect when you come in acting like, in my humble opinion, and ass. It was basically self-fulfilling prophecy. If someone doesn't like debates, they can easily ignore them.

Debates like "Define "Child"" should go in the mature section so younger people can't see it and get involved, even if they'd like to.

So what, just because it's a debate it's unsuitable for younger kids? I've met 12 and 13 year old kids who could argue circles around me. Debate teams are in schools, and you don't hear parents calling for those teams to be taken out. Granted, those debates are often more structured than debates here, but still. Anyway, we no longer have a mature section.

I love debate, myself, but a lot of what I've seen on SF-O spawns too much and too deep of a debate. And too much debate spawns drama. To sum up my previous post, I do not think I know everything and didn't mean anything in a bad or negative way. I was just saying the facts "I" seem to see here. And acting like adults and discussing it is what I meant. Adult debates. Most debates on here are between adults, and kids or teenagers get involved, as FoxMcCloud states, and things go wrong. But if you want to discuss it, feel free. I'll participate if I need to.

You love debate? Really?

What's the point of a debate, anyhow? Prove you're right? If so, proving something to someone who lives hundreds of miles away, doesn't even know your name, age, etc, is ridiculous. If that's NOT why, then why, really? What is the point of these blatant attempts to make someone mad? To spawn a debate which makes drama? I can't give any examples at the moment, but really…

Doesn't sound like it to me. Maybe I misinterpreted, but here you're basically saying it's a pointless waste of time. And deep debate is a good thing. It provokes thought, makes people question their beliefs, and keeps the mind sharp. And as I said, debates here rarely spawn anything more than mini-drama, so negligible that at most a mod will PM us and tell us to chill out for a few posts. Most of the drama we see around here is tied to the RP section, and our attempts to make that work. And looking back, I admitted that you weren't necessarily meaning bad by your comments, but if you weren't acting like you knew it all, you did a great job hiding it.

[Kursed]

I have to 100% agree Starfox is ment for young  kids why do we need the mature boards or even the debate boards it just spawns anger why were these boards created I'd like to know because it seems like to me that the debate and other mature boards are pretty much useless in a community based on  a children's game.

And the counter-point board the word Counter in itself says trouble to me. To counter something is to almost Fight back and what does fighting back do cause fights.....

I didn't come here to debate over usless topics or get my opinions crushed by endless counter points nor did I come here to fight over my being  a Fan of Krystal and why or other things like that  quiet literally I"m tired of it! And before anyone says anything about  debating  being a part of being in society name a career where I will need the Skill to debate besides a politician.

["User"]

I have to 100% agree Starfox is ment for young  kids why do we need the mature boards or even the debate boards it just spawns anger why were these boards created I'd like to know because it seems like to me that the debate and other mature boards are pretty much useless in a community based on  a children's game.

Look at the average age of the more active community members here, or active members in general - the age is definitely not in the "young kid" category by any stretch.  While there are a lot of minors, there's actually more members here 18 or older than the former group.  One reason being is that many of us grew up with Star Fox when the first games came out and thus we're more of an older community then I think some people realize and as a result we have more of a tendency to debate or talk about more mature things than younger members. 

Lets use Pokemon as an example, I remember when it first came out and I was 15.  I was told at the time that I was far too old for something like that.  Fast forward to today and a majority of Pokemon fans are far older than 15 and I'm very sure on their fan boards have their own mature sections for, dare I say, more risque artwork?  This whole "age appropriate" argument IMO doesn't really hold that much weight when it comes to subject matter...

[Kursed]

Despite that I still feel the debate and counter-point section is no more than  a drama causer only getting people angry at people who debate better.

And before you say anything about being corrected  on any topic How do you know  they want to be Corrected?

[Milkyway64]

And the counter-point board the word Counter in itself says trouble to me. To counter something is to almost Fight back and what does fighting back do cause fights.....

I didn't come here to debate over usless topics or get my opinions crushed by endless counter points nor did I come here to fight over my being  a Fan of Krystal and why or other things like that  quiet literally I"m tired of it! And before anyone says anything about  debating  being a part of being in society name a career where I will need the Skill to debate besides a politician.

Debate=/=fights

Debate=/=bad

Debate=/=useless

Debate=/=Stupid

User covered the age part (HERE KIDS, HAVE SOME SEX APPEAL IN KRYSTAL) but the other part is just dumb. It cuts back on hivemindedness and for the most part here it doesn't even get bad.

Despite that I still feel the debate and counter-point section is no more than  a drama causer only getting people angry at people who debate better.

And before you say anything about being corrected  on any topic How do you know  they want to be Corrected?

Because they posted it in public domain on a forum of many different types of people and fans.

["User"]

Despite that I still feel the debate and counter-point section is no more than  a drama causer only getting people angry at people who debate better.

You're entitled to your opinion, but as already mentioned the majority of drama has been RP related and that's a secondary purpose for SF-O.  The Pub and Counter-point section has actually been pretty stable recently because the people who tend to create topics or debate there are actually some pretty intelligent people who don't "lower themselves" to a standard of Ad Hominem posting. 

Also, as Milky just pointed out, some people are perceiving debating and "arguing" as drama when it just simply isn't true.

[Kursed]

Debate=/=fights

Debate=/=bad

Debate=/=useless

Debate=/=Stupid

User covered the age part (HERE KIDS, HAVE SOME SEX APPEAL IN KRYSTAL) but the other part is just dumb. It cuts back on hivemindedness and for the most part here it doesn't even get bad.

Because they posted it in public domain on a forum of many different types of people and fans.

So you can

1.immdiently Dis the  Minor minority in this forum?

2.assume whatever you want about people?

And I can point to a time when the rp section did not cause drama and I can probably point to the source of it as well.

So are you impliying that everyone outside of the debate threads are stupid User i'd just like to clarify?

[Milkyway64]

So you can

1.immdiently Dis the  Minor minority in this forum?

2.assume whatever you want about people?

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I have never dissed any minority on a significant level and I very rarely assume anything without evidence to back it up, and I stop assuming it once the clear answer is presented.

And I can point to a time when the rp section did not cause drama and I can probably point to the source of it as well.

Bullcrap, if what every account that ISN'T your's I'm hearing is true. The entire reason there's debate now is because the RP section, up to this point, has never been done completely right.

[Kursed]

sorry first one was kidna more addressed to user.

["User"]

Kursed...you edited three previous posts significantly AFTER I made my reply.  Pretty sneaky. 

So you can

1.immdiently Dis the  Minor minority in this forum?

2.assume whatever you want about people?

How is stating a fact (there are less minors on SFO than members 18 or older) dissing anyone?  By that logic I'd be dissing black people by saying that they form a minority of the U.S. population...or by saying that poorer people commit more crimes than people who are well off.  Those two previous assumptions are based on fact backed by credible statistics and most everyone will assume that's common knowledge.  Please don't make assumptions about me like this, I don't unilaterally mean to offend anyone.

So are you impliying that everyone outside of the debate threads are stupid User i'd just like to clarify?

No, I implied that they might be misinformed about the nature of the debate/conversation not that they were stupid. 

[Kursed]

Kursed...you edited three previous posts significantly AFTER I made my reply.  Pretty sneaky. 

How is stating a fact (there are less minors on SFO than members 18 or older) dissing anyone?  By that logic I'd be dissing black people by saying that they form a minority of the U.S. population...or by saying that poorer people commit more crimes than people who are well off.  Those two previous assumptions are based on fact backed by credible statistics and most everyone will assume that's common knowledge.  Please don't make assumptions about me like this, I don't unilaterally mean to offend anyone.

No, I implied that they might be misinformed about the nature of the debate/conversation not that they were stupid.

[Scott7]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I have never dissed any minority on a significant level

*clear's throat* Sorry to burst your bubble there Milkdud (no offense), but you did 'dis' me quite a few times the other night, and you did claim me as a 'minority' when i made my opinion in that  same thread at the time... 

But I have a question since the thought did arise while i was reading, Where in the Rp section going on. If the place is as dead as everyone claims then how could there be anybody to cause it in the first place?

[Milkyway64]

*clear's throat* Sorry to burst your bubble there Milkdud (no offense), but you did 'dis' me quite a few times the other night, and you did claim me as a 'minority' when i made my opinion in that  same thread at the time... 

But I have a question since the thought did arise while i was reading, Where in the Rp section going on. If the place is as dead as everyone claims then how could there be anybody to cause it in the first place?

Oh, right. But that wasn't a minority, that was just you because- nevermind.

And the RP section isn't dead, it just isn't well. It needs work and changes, and we are pushing for that.

[Scott7]

No argument there. But still, where is the Dram a in the place?