New RP Mod, Asper.

[Steve]

Alright, there's doubt, so I come with the evidence:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do note the time from when the topic was created, and do note that as soon I got a pm, I posted it there, due to privacy, I'm not going to reveal the content of the quote on the second post.

Things do get considered, you know?

[Fluxy]

I don't doubt they do get looked over, but it still doesn't make me feel any better that I was practically left in the dark all the while. That is mainly my issue.

I feel that if I just got the overall consensus earlier, that I easily could have answered questions as to stuff I thought of, and would then have the chance to take things out, and then add in. I was only trying to help overall in the first place, and just want the RP section to prosper more in the long run, and it just made me feel bad, even if you all didn't mean it. That is all I am trying to say I guess.

Sorry for sounding like an ass in that last post, I was just worked over a little, and had stuff going on. I shouldn't have responded like that.

[Geo Stelar]

Congrats asper!

[DZComposer]

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if it is even worth having RP at SFO anymore. It has such a tendency to become a drama-magnet. It is also the source of the majority of criticism aimed at the staff.

We've already tried a no-rules RP board, and it went down in flames (it was closed for over a month as a result). Then rules were added. Rules were changed when the previous rules didn't solve the problem. I'm starting to think that these problems are not solvable. We fix it, it's fine for a month, and then it all starts again. I'm tired of trying to find solutions to this, as they all have failed.

I know RP is a popular feature here, but on the back end of things it is really starting to eat-up the bulk of staff time. SFO is not primarily an RP community, and I'd much rather us use our staff resources elsewhere rather than re-appoint full mods to RP mods.

I'm not canning the RP beard yet, but I am starting to lose my patience with it.

[Asper Sarnoff]

I finally have time off to do some of the explanation required here, so I'll get cracking right away.

Having read through them, I'm even more annoyed. His last words in there were blatantantly obvious things that make up the ENTIRE MEAT OF MY ARGUMENT.

Yeah, modship may be a charity, but you're still expected to DO something. You know what, Asper, yes, cutting down on RPs, giving them the lock, and approving new ones IS what RP mods do. Wanna know the punchline though? The joke flying over everyone's head?

THEY'RE NOT DOING THEM.

Can I make this anymore clear? Yes, Asper may be a step in the right direction, but the other foot is still in the grass the sign tells us so lovingly to keep off of.

Milkyway, let me tell you what I've allready said, and you've chosen to ignore, the RP mods aren't blatantly ignoring their duties. If they were, they wouldn't have stayed mods for this long, and I wouldn't be defending them like I now do. They have been following the guidelines in their job description to the letter. The problem however, was that those guidelines were laid out poorly and by people whose main field isn't roleplaying. No, this is not an effort to shove the blame onto the other parts of the mod team, I was among those who did the most amount of explaining to them on how their new duties would be. When you are told that no more than four roleplays can be run at a time, people will get pissed if their roleplays are closed after a couple of days with inactivity, and that the players themself would be watching for any sign of trouble and call in the mods to deal with, what would you do about it?

No, the problem was neither laziness nor incompetence, but lack of communication. Particularly me want to apologise for this, after all the time I spent of my almost daily chats with Fira to tell her how to do her job. I actually remember her complaining after I explained how things would become after the last restructuring, which you was part of, that she wouldn't have anything to do. And some of the changes I'd like to perform on the RP section are actually originally her ideas, that was thrown aside because we believed we'd keep the majority the most satisfied walking the line allready set. Some of the changes are without a doubt going to be controversial, but if it is what's needed to keep the RP section alive and healthy, I'll implent them.

You're saying you have considered all this carefully and come to a conclusion about it. Well, the thing is buddy, you don't have all the cards on the table unless you've read everything posted about the RP forum in the staff area, eavesdropped to the long conversations I've had with the RP mods on their duties and how they should perform them, and you don't have a full log over all the mod actions taken in the RP board since Fira and Sylum got their position. I have, and I simply ask for them to be given the benefit of the doubt, instead of being subjected to the steamrolling argumentation style you're so fond of.

I am of course open to your suggestions and concern, so are all the staff. But attacking them in the manner you did in the topic that created this, as if they were your archenemies, is not the way to come of as the voice of reason. You hurt several people back there in your crusade, and earned yourself a solid warning. Now, could you have given your opinion and advice in a way that'd avoided them both? Yes. This advice I'll give you. Try sticking to that path from now on.

Replying to him like that isn't helping. He's not here to start drama, he's just mad (seriously Milk cool the fuck dooooooooown).

Now, I support the current idea of "the RPers govern themselves"... to an extent. The Mods should not, and do not, have to patrol every single RP post to do things that GMs are fully capable of; such as keeping participants in line, keeping trolls out, and so forth. In these cases, a mod should only be called on when the problem explodes out of hand and GMs can't control their RP anymore and a mod is needed to crack some skulls.

What I -THINK- Milky was mad about, though, and if this is the case then I'm inclined to somewhat agree with him, is that the RP mods weren't doing other duties, such as checking RPs to see if they've gone stagnant and need closing, and approving new RPs for the queue, and so on. These should NOT need community notifications to do. A mod of course can not be expected to read every single RP post everyday... but they certainly can read the latest post of a RP, check the date it was posted on and compare it to their computer's date, and realize that if the last post was like a MONTH AGO, lock that sucker up and get to work on the next RP wanting to start. I mean really, the RP Queue topic hasn't even been posted in since July of 2009! This I believe is the "laziness" Milky is referring to, and is what needs to be addressed, and while I agree Asper is a step in the right direction for it, he does have other duties and so if the current RP mods are unable to do their job (for whatever reasons), then we need to assign maybe one or two more mods to help them out.

And really, if we had more RP mods, then we could have more RPs active at a time, which would be one step closer to just eliminating the queue nonsense entirely (I still stand staunchly against it).

Thank you Robert for your understanding approach to this. I must however inform you that the RP Queue topic was closed at that date, being replaced by the whole "RP Request" subforum in its place. Should have deleted that topic long ago, as it holds no real purpose anymore.

As for the slowness of the rate RP's are allowed their turn in the spotlight, that was my largest concern when I was thinking of the changes that'll be done to the RP board. I do however think it'll get around that problem after the revamp.

And by the way, seeing you're also starting to get involved in the RP section, and a frankly somewhat brilliant mind, I'd like to PM a simple outcast on the mayor changes that the RP section will undergo, and ask for your take on them. Another point of view and attack angle may reveal flaws I and the staff have overlooked.

And as a final note. DZ-Composer have stated this numerous times, this being the last and final time. If the RP board doesn't work properly, and persist in creating drama, it'll be ditched. The reform I'm about to push trough will be the only option if you still want to have roleplaying on SF-O.

[Milkyway64]

I finally have time off to do some of the explanation required here, so I'll get cracking right away.

Milkyway, let me tell you what I've allready said, and you've chosen to ignore, the RP mods aren't blatantly ignoring their duties. If they were, they wouldn't have stayed mods for this long, and I wouldn't be defending them like I now do. They have been following the guidelines in their job description to the letter. The problem however, was that those guidelines were laid out poorly and by people whose main field isn't roleplaying. No, this is not an effort to shove the blame onto the other parts of the mod team, I was among those who did the most amount of explaining to them on how their new duties would be. When you are told that no more than four roleplays can be run at a time, people will get pissed if their roleplays are closed after a couple of days with inactivity, and that the players themself would be watching for any sign of trouble and call in the mods to deal with, what would you do about it?

No, the problem was neither laziness nor incompetence, but lack of communication. Particularly me want to apologise for this, after all the time I spent of my almost daily chats with Fira to tell her how to do her job. I actually remember her complaining after I explained how things would become after the last restructuring, which you was part of, that she wouldn't have anything to do. And some of the changes I'd like to perform on the RP section are actually originally her ideas, that was thrown aside because we believed we'd keep the majority the most satisfied walking the line allready set. Some of the changes are without a doubt going to be controversial, but if it is what's needed to keep the RP section alive and healthy, I'll implent them.

You're saying you have considered all this carefully and come to a conclusion about it. Well, the thing is buddy, you don't have all the cards on the table unless you've read everything posted about the RP forum in the staff area, eavesdropped to the long conversations I've had with the RP mods on their duties and how they should perform them, and you don't have a full log over all the mod actions taken in the RP board since Fira and Sylum got their position. I have, and I simply ask for them to be given the benefit of the doubt, instead of being subjected to the steamrolling argumentation style you're so fond of.

I am of course open to your suggestions and concern, so are all the staff. But attacking them in the manner you did in the topic that created this, as if they were your archenemies, is not the way to come of as the voice of reason. You hurt several people back there in your crusade, and earned yourself a solid warning. Now, could you have given your opinion and advice in a way that'd avoided them both? Yes. This advice I'll give you. Try sticking to that path from now on.

Fair enough, but there is one thing that bugs me. You talk like I SHOULD have known what goes on in IM and staff boards. You talk as if I caused a big war because I'm blind. Well, sure, but you also have to remember I can't see them.

I still stand by a lot of what I said. All the talk in the world could happen back there, but the fact remains that it's super secret and nobody knows it's even happening. In the public's eyes, ie mine, Nick's, Xort's and Robert's, nothing has happened and we've had a bunch of mods not doing anything until Asper comes in and saves the day.

A lack of communication was right. All of us were left hanging with long dead RPs clogging the board and a rapidly increasing number waiting to see the light of day. Maybe a heads up that everything was slowing to a crawl so you could work it out back there would have been nice, then we wouldn't have had the wrong idea. Speaking of a lack of communication, There's been a number of us throwing suggestions for... how long, now? Even my awful steamroll argument style has had good points in it filtered and backed up by Robert, who is FINALLY getting recognized and let in on the ooooh so SECRET RP section revamp. I'm happy for that, but it SHOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO US THIS ENTIRE TIME.

The staff doesn't RP, why do they need to see it? This is why it isn't working, the ideas aren't beta pitched to the people who KNOW THE PROBLEMS.

[KokoaMinto]

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if it is even worth having RP at SFO anymore. It has such a tendency to become a drama-magnet. It is also the source of the majority of criticism aimed at the staff.

We've already tried a no-rules RP board, and it went down in flames (it was closed for over a month as a result). Then rules were added. Rules were changed when the previous rules didn't solve the problem. I'm starting to think that these problems are not solvable. We fix it, it's fine for a month, and then it all starts again. I'm tired of trying to find solutions to this, as they all have failed.

I know RP is a popular feature here, but on the back end of things it is really starting to eat-up the bulk of staff time. SFO is not primarily an RP community, and I'd much rather us use our staff resources elsewhere rather than re-appoint full mods to RP mods.

I'm not canning the RP beard yet, but I am starting to lose my patience with it.

Well actually I stayed quiet about the RP here on SFO, but after I've heard from R3d that you think about it closing/deleting it from the community I need to say something.

First of, most of the drama are coming from users that are too young and like to get the attention inside of the "group" he/she is playing in like his/her character gets shot down and needs first aid and what do I know.

Second, the Mods are somewhat lazy in my eyes and aren't much into the "controlling the users" stuff and third, the way the RPs are running... it's really confusing as hell.

I like to RP very much (I do it since a bunch of years now, even running a German RP board with my best friend, German and original characters only, we don't want to let people play the official characters. So I do have some knowledges about things like that like everyone else here does ) and I really wanted to join the RP here after I saw that here's an active community, but after I saw what a chaos there is I was like "What the heck?".

The rules of the RP are alright, I can't complain about them (I've read the last updated version, don't worry), I really like them and need to prize the Mods for the work! But I don't think that people can get through all this huge "threat chaos" that exist there.

I don't want to offend ANYONE of the Mods that have to do with the RP section here, please don't get the wrong idea of what I was saying about the "laziness" thingy above. It's just like you can't control every single area of the RP, and that's mostly because of this chaotic look of the RP section, that's why some of you people just don't get the right idea of what's going on with the users and their RPs.

Closing/deleting the RP section would make much more drama than already exist, DZ, so I guess it wouldn't change too much. I would say you grasp the people that have to do with the RP section (Mods) and try to find a way to solve everything. I know it's easier said than done, but it's at least a fair chance to get away from the most drama.

What came into my mind was that you split the RP sections, making a section for people under the age of 14, for people at the age of 15 - 16 till 18.

Also you should split the areas to "Planet Corneria", "Planet Fichina", "Planet Venom" etc etc instead of putting everything into one whole section. In this way people can make serious RPs without bothering that other people run into a happening without knowing what's going on. If people don't want to play serious RPs then put another section in it where people can freely do what they want to play, something like a "just 4 fun" section.

You know, that's the way my best friend and I are running our RP section and it's very easy to control the users and their postings It's just an idea to make things going a bit more easier in a RP section, especially when it's THAT big like here.

People always make big dramas about the RP sections and the actions of their "teammates", so the best thing to keep them away from drama is to search for another way so people can RP freely and without getting disturbed by others, especially when they don't have anything to do with the RP.

[CrypticQuery]

What came into my mind was that you split the RP sections, making a section for people under the age of 14, for people at the age of 15 - 16 till 18.

So you're saying to split an already dwindling RP section even further?  Most of the "drama" was not even attributed to users in a younger age group; the RP section was growing, and did not seem ready; threads were overblown, etc.  Now, it's much more deserted than it used to be and there is considerably less activity. 

Using the "One size fits all" mentality here is simply impractical.

Also you should split the areas to "Planet Corneria", "Planet Fichina", "Planet Venom" etc etc instead of putting everything into one whole section. In this way people can make serious RPs without bothering that other people run into a happening without knowing what's going on.

 

There is really no need; RPs have been working decently under the current system, and it seems that dividing the entire board complicates/clutters things more; what if you have a "serious" RP that takes place in multiple areas? 

__

Not that I want to see the RP section go, as a matter of fact I don't, but if it cannot be handled correctly on SF-O (with input considered from everyone), then the only other outcome is to have the board axed. 

[Sylum]

Thanks for the input saphy! It's appreciated, but like foo said. Splitting it further would divide the userbase.

The only reason I could see us as being "lazy" is the rule of GMs. The creator polices their thread and calls the rp mod if a problem comes up. It was just a new rule set to test. a new set of rules (which will be final) are being written.

[Milkyway64]

a new set of rules (which will be final) are being written.

This. Is. Not. The. Way. To. DO THIS BALGHDAGADABLAH.

Hear me out. -again.-

You know why the RP section has been failing and it's rules constantly being tweaked? Because of THIS. This isn't an issue to be held with the staff ffs, I got a small preveiw of a proposed rule change and it's gonna destroy the place. This issue -needs to be brought to peers that actually care about it- as almost all staff has no interest in RP. I'm sick of saying this.

[Arashikage]

You know, I actually have to agree here...

[ballisticwaffles]

You know, I actually have to agree here...

aye, me too.

[Scott7]

As much as I hate to admit it, I have to say ditto...

[sniper]

Congrats Asper!

[Asper Sarnoff]

This. Is. Not. The. Way. To. DO THIS BALGHDAGADABLAH.

Hear me out. -again.-

You know why the RP section has been failing and it's rules constantly being tweaked? Because of THIS. This isn't an issue to be held with the staff ffs, I got a small preveiw of a proposed rule change and it's gonna destroy the place. This issue -needs to be brought to peers that actually care about it- as almost all staff has no interest in RP. I'm sick of saying this.

Hmm, I take it that since you claim too know the proposed changes to the sections, that your friend Robert Monroe opted to betray the trust I placed on him and pass it on against my wish?

And let me take a moment to adress the other parts of this argument. Firstly, I'm quite sure the RP section has only undergone one significant change in the time you've been a member here, which does kind of make this quite a bold statement to make. Secondly, claiming the RP section has always been a failure is also quite wrong, seeing as I clearly remember a time it worked quite well indeed. Of course, this was before your time here, and long before you started roleplaying, so I won't hold it against you.

In regard to who's ultimately responsible for the changes the section will undergo, it's mostly a work of me and Fira. I do actually dare you to say neither of us are interested in roleplaying.

[Milkyway64]

Hmm, I take it that since you claim too know the proposed changes to the sections, that your friend Robert Monroe opted to betray the trust I placed on him and pass it on against my wish?

And let me take a moment to adress the other parts of this argument. Firstly, I'm quite sure the RP section has only undergone one significant change in the time you've been a member here, which does kind of make this quite a bold statement to make. Secondly, claiming the RP section has always been a failure is also quite wrong, seeing as I clearly remember a time it worked quite well indeed. Of course, this was before your time here, and long before you started roleplaying, so I won't hold it against you.

In regard to who's ultimately responsible for the changes the section will undergo, it's mostly a work of me and Fira. I do actually dare you to say neither of us are interested in roleplaying.

No, as a matter of fact the "betrayer" is our pal DZComposer.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Sure, I wasn't there, but DZ was, and he's said there's always been issues and changes. If it was so good at one point, why isn't it anymore? If it didn't need changes, why did this string of unsuccessful ones come to light? Something doesn't add up here, and my lack of witnessing it isn't it.

And I know who's in charge, that's my point. You and Fira my as well be one entity with your relationship, so it's ALL ON YOU GUYS. You can do whatever you want, and the rest of the staff will glance it and go "looks good" and HELLO NEW PROBLEMATIC RULESET, GET READY FOR YOUR DATE WITH DRAMA.

This -will not work- if it's just you two, as you are the only two the care and thus you have free reign. It's not even a discussion back there. There's no contest to whether or not whatever you come up with will be finalized. It needs to be -here- where all the others who give a crap about it can see.

I feel like a broken record at this point.

[Redeemer]

Everyone please calm down, there's no need to fight. We are taking in everything you're saying, trust me. But it can be said in a nicer way. :/

[Sabre]

Hmm, I take it that since you claim too know the proposed changes to the sections, that your friend Robert Monroe opted to betray the trust I placed on him and pass it on against my wish?

And let me take a moment to adress the other parts of this argument. Firstly, I'm quite sure the RP section has only undergone one significant change in the time you've been a member here, which does kind of make this quite a bold statement to make. Secondly, claiming the RP section has always been a failure is also quite wrong, seeing as I clearly remember a time it worked quite well indeed. Of course, this was before your time here, and long before you started roleplaying, so I won't hold it against you.

In regard to who's ultimately responsible for the changes the section will undergo, it's mostly a work of me and Fira. I do actually dare you to say neither of us are interested in roleplaying.

Yes, they are all close knit like that. I could bad mouth them or make bold accusations. I won't though beyond saying I hope you learned your lesson.

If you like, I can teach you something else, that pessamissim is technically the best option. Iirc you are a milletery man. I thought you would have learned this already. Do some reading on MinMaxing if you are not already familar with the concept.

Everyone please calm down, there's no need to fight. We are taking in everything you're saying, trust me. But it can be said in a nicer way.

Heh. Because of the people I mentioned earlier being on my ignore list, all I see is increasingly bizare reactions. It seems to me valid opinions are getting lost in trolling and hot air.

[Asper Sarnoff]

No, as a matter of fact the "betrayer" is our pal DZComposer.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Sure, I wasn't there, but DZ was, and he's said there's always been issues and changes. If it was so good at one point, why isn't it anymore? If it didn't need changes, why did this string of unsuccessful ones come to light? Something doesn't add up here, and my lack of witnessing it isn't it.

And I know who's in charge, that's my point. You and Fira my as well be one entity with your relationship, so it's ALL ON YOU GUYS. You can do whatever you want, and the rest of the staff will glance it and go "looks good" and HELLO NEW PROBLEMATIC RULESET, GET READY FOR YOUR DATE WITH DRAMA.

This -will not work- if it's just you two, as you are the only two the care and thus you have free reign. It's not even a discussion back there. There's no contest to whether or not whatever you come up with will be finalized. It needs to be -here- where all the others who give a crap about it can see.

I feel like a broken record at this point.

DZ? Didn't expect that I must confess.

Now, since you're asking for the reason DZ has had reason to view the RP board as a trouble zone. Wouldn't it have to be because he'd for the most part only brought it to his notice when trouble arose? The RP board was a fine place at one point, its problems centering around some people who brought roleplaying to other threads in the forum, as well as the odd dissagreement between players.

Unfortunatly, as time passed and the site grew, up came the problem that caused the last change in the board, with the large sticky RP's. The rewamp, which you were among those pushing the hardest for, made the board into what it now is.

So, your concern is really that you don't think the RP mods are up to the task. Now you've made me curious. Can you tell me in which way you'd be more qualified for working out a new set of rules for the RP board than for example me?

And as for the last remark, the feeling is mutual.

[Scott7]

Yes, they are all close knit like that. I could bad mouth them or make bold accusations. I won't though beyond saying I hope you learned your lesson.

If you like, I can teach you something else, that pessamissim is technically the best option. Iirc you are a milletery man. I thought you would have learned this already. Do some reading on MinMaxing if you are not already familar with the concept.

Come on Sabre, Do we really need to bring our personal lives into this discussion? To be honest, but in no offense you're person, But I honestly find pulling something like that into a discussion to opose another person's opinion is a bit cruel...

[Fluxy]

DZ? Didn't expect that I must confess.

Now, since you're asking for the reason DZ has had reason to view the RP board as a trouble zone. Wouldn't it have to be because he'd for the most part only brought it to his notice when trouble arose? The RP board was a fine place at one point, its problems centering around some people who brought roleplaying to other threads in the forum, as well as the odd dissagreement between players.

Unfortunatly, as time passed and the site grew, up came the problem that caused the last change in the board, with the large sticky RP's. The rewamp, which you were among those pushing the hardest for, made the board into what it now is.

So, your concern is really that you don't think the RP mods are up to the task. Now you've made me curious. Can you tell me in which way you'd be more qualified for working out a new set of rules for the RP board than for example me?

And as for the last remark, the feeling is mutual.

That isn't entirely what he is saying, Asper. Each and everyone person has great ideas, but it is also fair to say the said ideas have just as equal issues.

The issue he is saying that since you two are so close together, it is practically the same, if not altered by a few percent, that it is almost like one person's ideas. He is saying that unless you give it chances to be seen and responded to, you won't be able to realize what could make it stronger, or, if it is even a good idea at all.

[Milkyway64]

Now, since you're asking for the reason DZ has had reason to view the RP board as a trouble zone. Wouldn't it have to be because he'd for the most part only brought it to his notice when trouble arose? The RP board was a fine place at one point, its problems centering around some people who brought roleplaying to other threads in the forum, as well as the odd dissagreement between players.

Unfortunatly, as time passed and the site grew, up came the problem that caused the last change in the board, with the large sticky RP's. The rewamp, which you were among those pushing the hardest for, made the board into what it now is.

So, your concern is really that you don't think the RP mods are up to the task. Now you've made me curious. Can you tell me in which way you'd be more qualified for working out a new set of rules for the RP board than for example me?

And as for the last remark, the feeling is mutual.

And I have to add, the things I were pushing for were only half-realized. Most of the proposed changes were brushed off, as Robert testified to earlier in the thread. The bottom line is, when I showed up, the RP section was flawed and restrictive. Robert and I banded together to improve it, and while not succeeding perse, pushed it in the right direction. It seems we weren't really listened to and the staff talked about it instead.

Well let me return the question. What makes you and Fira think you are the only ones with opinions that matter? I mean, we have problems down in the RP section, otherwise Nick, Robert and I wouldn't be here. We also know what these problems are, hence our argued cases mirroring each other. We also happen to be, forgive we if this comes off as whistle tooting, pretty intelligent and literatively developed, we know what's what with this stuff and we get pretty consistently ignored in favor of letting the two people with shiny yellow names handle -everything.- Staff conferences usually pools together several opinions and makes the best decision based on that, but in this particular case, your opinion is all there is as the staff doesn't RP.

That isn't entirely what he is saying, Asper. Each and everyone person has great ideas, but it is also fair to say the said ideas have just as equal issues.

The issue he is saying that since you two are so close together, it is practically the same, if not altered by a few percent, that it is almost like one person's ideas. He is saying that unless you give it chances to be seen and responded to, you won't be able to realize what could make it stronger, or, if it is even a good idea at all.

Also this.

[Scott7]

And I have to add, the things I were pushing for were only half-realized. Most of the proposed changes were brushed off, as Robert testified to earlier in the thread. The bottom line is, when I showed up, the RP section was flawed and restrictive. Robert and I banded together to improve it, and while not succeeding perse, pushed it in the right direction. It seems we weren't really listened to and the staff talked about it instead.

Well let me return the question. What makes you and Fira think you are the only ones with opinions that matter? I mean, we have problems down in the RP section, otherwise Nick, Robert and I wouldn't be here. We also know what these problems are, hence our argued cases mirroring each other. We also happen to be, forgive we if this comes off as whistle tooting, pretty intelligent and literatively developed, we know what's what with this stuff and we get pretty consistently ignored in favor of letting the two people with shiny yellow names handle -everything.- Staff conferences usually pools together several opinions and makes the best decision based on that, but in this particular case, your opinion is all there is as the staff doesn't RP.

Are You telling me?! That The Reason you PUT SO MUCH EFFORT into changing what WE LIKED, was because YOU 3 Didn't like the way things were being Ran!!!!???

[Fluxy]

Are You telling me?! That The Reason you PUT SO MUCH EFFORT into changing what WE LIKED, was because YOU 3 Didn't like the way things were being Ran!!!!???

Do not jump to assumptions like that. This is not the time for that, and you know that, OWA. Please, not right now.

[Scott7]

Do not jump to assumptions like that. This is not the time for that, and you know that, OWA. Please, not right now.

I wasn't refering to you Nick, you were here long before that from what i remember. And  don't worry I'm not making a quick assumtion, This has been on my mind for months as you already know.

And I 'm sorry Dude, but the quote just really ticked me off... And to Be frankly honest i find it purely Selfish... And I was in a good mood when i finally got home from Cisco to top it all off...