3DS New York/Amsterdam conference.

[DZComposer]

:facepalm:

The first point was about pricing equivalency between currencies. The second point was about the actual value of the currencies in relation to the US dollar. The points are not mutually exclusive.

Just because the 3DS is ¥25000 in Japan does not mean expect $304 in the US. But converting USD to Yen and spending ¥25000 still sets you back $304. I this case, the ¥25000 product retails for $250 in the US. So both points are still valid.

[Sabre]

The first point was about pricing equivalency between currencies. The second point was about the actual value of the currencies in relation to the US dollar. The points are not mutually exclusive.

In context they are. Redeemer complained about the price hike, you said she can't do that because there is no equivalency. When crazyfooinc says the lower price is still to much, you say the equivarlency means he's getting a bargain.

[Zzz]

ok shit, I forogt about that.

I also expected the ds to cost something around 180 €.

Well fuck that region lock bullshit even more now. Goddammit, Nintendo...

[Sabre]

ok shit, I forogt about that.

I also expected the ds to cost something around 180 €.

Well fuck that region lock bullshit even more now. Goddammit, Nintendo...

By the time the first price drop rolls around the region lock will be well cracked.

[DZComposer]

In context they are. Redeemer complained about the price hike, you said she can't do that because there is no equivalency. When crazyfooinc says the lower price is still to much, you say the equivarlency means he's getting a bargain.

She said this:

What. The. Ffff. WHY SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE?!

I responded, with the part you conveniently left out when you quoted me in bold:

Remember, there is no "true" equivalency between currencies. All an exchange rate means is how much of one currency you can buy with another. There are many other factors that go into pricing a product, including local overhead costs, taxes/tariffs, shipping, and pricing sweetspots.

Crazyfooinc complained about the $250. I pointed out that, in raw currency terms, that the USD price is actually the lowest.  $250 will buy you ¥20750. In Japan, the 3DS costs ¥25000. ¥25000 will buy you a little less than $304. This fact does not contradict my point.

So:

Just because the 3DS is ¥25000 in Japan does not mean expect $304 in the US. (my first point) But converting USD to Yen and spending ¥25000 still sets you back $304. I this case, the ¥25000 product retails for $250 in the US (my second point). So both points are still valid.

[Sabre]

There are many other factors that go into pricing a product, including local overhead costs, taxes/tariffs, shipping, and pricing sweetspots.

Irrelivent. The price is still up. Even if it was, as you try to ignore, the price is way above what it would cost to indervidualy import them.

Even so.

If you want to use that as your argument for the uped EU price, then again, you cannot use the bargain argument as you could say it backwards. If the EU is not getting ripped off, but the US is getting a bargain, how is that logically consistant?

If US is cheap, then EU is dear reguardless of wording.

If the EU is fair, then the US price is also fair, and therefor not a bargain.

What you are basicly saying is something like

"This car has never crashed, but every time it's crashed everyone was fine." Either the car has crashed and everyone was fine, or it didn't. You can't use both no matter how clever you try to word it.

EDIT: Back on topic. Hardware trailer.

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-nintendo-3ds-in-great-detail/17-3696/

[Star Fox Runner]

And SFRunner, if you think $249 is crazy, £229 is around $360.

Ouch, maybe I shouldn't be complaining then.

In terms of buying the 3DS on launch day, I may just wait. None of the games I want, such as Star Fox 64, Ocarina of Time, and the Resident Evil titles, won't be out until summer, so I really wouldn't have anything to play on it.

[Icy]

And how do we know SF64, OoT won't be out until June-ish? They never said that.

I was keeping track of this conference but couldn't watch it live. Anyway, I don't plan on pre-ordering it, but I do plan on getting it at launch or maybe a few days later.

[DZComposer]

Irrelivent. The price is still up. Even if it was, as you try to ignore, the price is way above what it would cost to indervidualy import them.

That sentence is not irrelevant, but rather the  MAIN POINT of that post. The nonequivalent I was referring to is on the pricing side, NOT the value of the currency. That sentence is the explanation of said inequality.

You are correct when you say importing the 3DS into Europe would be cheaper, tariffs, taxes, and shipping not withstanding. But that doesn't invalidate my point about the pricing difference between the currencies because they are TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

You're either missing the point or setting up a strawman. Either way, don't lecture me about logic when you are changing-up my arguments in a way that fits your conclusion. That only serves to make you look like a hypocrite.

Even so.

If you want to use that as your argument for the uped EU price, then again, you cannot use the bargain argument as you could say it backwards. If the EU is not getting ripped off, but the US is getting a bargain, how is that logically consistant?

If US is cheap, then EU is dear reguardless of wording.

If the EU is fair, then the US price is also fair, and therefor not a bargain.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said the EU was getting ripped-off. Nor did I say the US is getting a bargain. I said the US price, in raw currency terms, is the lowest. The point you're missing is RAW CURRENCY TERMS.

Whether or not said price is a bargain or a ripoff is determined by more factors than just currency values. Local variables play into it, as was the point I was making earlier.

What you are basicly saying is something like

"This car has never crashed, but every time it's crashed everyone was fine." Either the car has crashed and everyone was fine, or it didn't. You can't use both no matter how clever you try to word it.

If you'd pull your head out of your "arse," you'd realize how stupid you sound accusing me of that as your whole basis for it is quoting me out of context, and then claiming the context irrelevant. Read what I wrote, not what you want to read.

Once again, the first argument I made was regarding international pricing theory. The second was about currency exchange values. They are not mutually exclusive arguments as they are on different subjects.

And how do we know SF64, OoT won't be out until June-ish? They never said that.

I was keeping track of this conference but couldn't watch it live. Anyway, I don't plan on pre-ordering it, but I do plan on getting it at launch or maybe a few days later.

The NCL press conference last month. OoT was given a summer release date, while SF643D was a "TBA 2011."

[Sabre]

Well, I think that post speaks for itself. You keep ignoring the point and instead have got stuck in your rhetoric. My point that if you use one argument to say one is favourable, then the other is wrose, is completely ignored. Instead you resort to name calling and playing the victim.

[Redeemer]

WAT. Can't we just talk about the 3DS? Make another topic if you want to continue this debate.

[Sabre]

erm, we were. In particular the price anounced at the show in the threads title. We just disagreed on the price. DZ defends it while I think it's bollocks. The argument was about his inconsitent justifications. The belief that the EU price rise can't be held against it, but the US price drop can be held in it's favour.

If you want to talk about the machine itself I have nothing much to say. Games wise the only one of the first lot I cared about was Resident Evil, but it seems it's just the Mercinaries mode from RE5 with sheva reskined as clair.

[Redeemer]

erm, we were. In particular the price anounced at the show in the threads title. We just disagreed on the price. DZ defends it while I think it's bollocks. The argument was about his inconsitent justifications. The belief that the EU price rise can't be held against it, but the US price drop can be held in it's favour.

If you want to talk about the machine itself I have nothing much to say. Games wise the only one of the first lot I cared about was Resident Evil, but it seems it's just the Mercinaries mode from RE5 with sheva reskined as clair.

Ya, but your post above mine was about DZ's debate methods, etc. It wasn't really neccessary, you could have just said "Let's agree to disagree" instead of accusing him of name calling and playing the victim. I just want peace. ;_;

[Sabre]

There is peace. Was just pointing out the flaw in the reasoning his opinion is based on. I would use agree to disagree, but the flaw wasn't in his opinion, but rather the contradiction behind it. It would be like saying we disagree on what 2+2 is.

I should also point out that he started throwing stones, not me.

[Zzz]

Nintendo are letting retailers in Europe set their own price for the Nintendo 3DS. But Nintendo do sell the hardware to them for a specific amount and then they choose how much profit they want to make on top of that. According to “a representative from one of the major supermarket brands in the UK” this base price is £173, which means folks who are selling the 3DS for £230 are attaching a 33% mark-up to the device. Which is quite high. I’m all for profit and sustainable business, but I think the only hope is to wait for a price war.

http://nintendo3dsblog.com/the-real-price-of-the-nintendo-3ds-in-europe

[Sabre]

Interesting. The normal mark up on most things is about 20% iirc, but 33% is a bit high.

Even so, the wholesale price is still higher then American retail, so it's still not a good excuse.

[DZComposer]

Well, I think that post speaks for itself. You keep ignoring the point and instead have got stuck in your rhetoric. My point that if you use one argument to say one is favourable, then the other is wrose, is completely ignored. Instead you resort to name calling and playing the victim.

Dude, I know what I fucking said. I explained what I fucking said like six different ways, and you still insist that I said something else. I repeatedly said that the point I made about the European price was about pricing theory (IE, why the price was different), and that the point I made about the US price was raw currency value (IE, the US has the "lowest" price). Yet, you continue to assert that I was using the same terms in both points, which I repeatedly told you I wasn't, and when I provided the portion of my post that proved that, you ignored it and called it irrelevant.

Call it "playing the victim" if you want, but I was pointing out my statement being misrepresented, and then calling you out for hypocrisy when you start accusing me of making logical fallacies. I said it because that is what happened.

The reason I called you out in such harsh terms is that lately you have been on this logical high-horse claiming that you are logically infallible when you quoted me out of context and continued to misrepresent what I said based on that out-of context quote and dismissing the context when I called you out on it, which is one of the basic informal fallacies. And I'm not the only person you have done that to. You repeatedly insult people's intelligence, often using misrepresented statements. It's annoying as fuck, and if you do that shit to me, I will call you out on it every fucking time.

No one is logically infallible, so quit pretending that you are.

[Beau Skunk]

Soooo... Anyone else happy they're bringing a Virtual Console service to 3DS's download shop? (So far only Gameboy & GB Color titles are confirmed, but I wouldn't rule out "Gameboy Advance" just yet.) There are actually some pretty impressive Gameboy games out there.

Can't wait to see Gameboy & GBC games like Donkey Kong '94, Kirby's Pinball Land, Super Mario Land 2, Wario Land: SML3, Kid Icarus: Of Myths & Monsters, Zelda: Oracle of Seasons & Ages, Shantae, and other cool GB games on the service.

(Hopefully they won't cost more then the NES games on Wii, considering they're 8-bit.)

[Sideways]

I'm looking forward to seeing the zelda games, maybe the original pokemon. I know they made remakes, I want to see the original.

[Icy]

DZ scared everyone away with his awesome post.

I love the Virtual Console for 3DS, too, can't wait to see what games get released first. :)

[Beau Skunk]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Pokemon! It'll be nice to be able to play the original Red/Blue versions again in all of their original black & white glory. I hope they keep the "link-up" multi-player trade/battle feature in tact in these GB games though. (Though, that shouldn't be to hard to emulate. That feature was kept in tact in the Game Gear games in some of the Sonic compilation games.)

Only, now we won't need a game link cable. ;)

[Fire Yoshi]

Only, now we won't need a game link cable.

Oh the horror of that thing. X_X

I remember that cable failing and failing to connect while trying to link up with my friends on the old-old pokemon games.

[Sabre]

Oh the horror of that thing. X_X

I remember that cable failing and failing to connect while trying to link up with my friends on the old-old pokemon games.

I remember linking 2 PS1s togather to play command and conquer. ...I don't miss those days.

[Fire Yoshi]

I remember linking 2 PS1s togather to play command and conquer. ...I don't miss those days.

That game was born to be played on the PC.  C&C 1 (And Red Alert 1) was one of my greatest all time addicts when I was a grade schooler.

[Sabre]

Oh dear. Apparently using the 3D halfs the framerate according to this podcast. :/