godhatesfurries

[Xortberg]

You are avoiding the point. The fact you bring up a spelling error proves that.

Oh. My. God.

Did you really just say that? Let me look at your post again, to make sure I read that right.

...

Yeah, it's official. You don't know how to think. Yes, Dras pointed out a spelling error. NO SHE DID NOT BASE HER ENTIRE ARGUMENT OFF OF IT. NO SHE DID NOT IGNORE YOUR ARGUMENT. The spelling error was mentioned most likely in response to you calling her overdramatic. You psuedo-insult her, she does the same to you. Of course, that's just my take on it, so I could be completely wrong. OH LOOK I CAN ADMIT THAT I MIGHT BE WRONG. GEE THAT'S FUNNY, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU CAN'T.

[Milkyway64]

Oh my god, Sabre. Just-wat.

I dunno if I should laugh really, really hard at the joke that is you, or feel sad that somebody who claims to be intelligent is THAT deaf to anyword or thought not coming from his own head and frantically trying to justify it by picking one word out of a multi paragraph post.

Sabre, I am more than disappoint.

[Drasiana]

Sabre, at this point I don't know why I bother trying to respond to you, because it's blatantly obvious that you read maybe a line of what I've written before flying off on a frothing rage without even bothering to consider the context or reasoning in anything other than your own illy-written posts.

For the record, if you did bother to read once in a while (which might help with those typos I nitpicked) you'd notice that my post is LONGER than yours thus far and so it's pretty goddamn silly--actually, it's just straight up stupid, to assume that my entire point is based on the fact that you mispelled "nerve" (while trying to insult me).

And yes, I get what you're saying, I always got with you're saying, and I think it's asinine. I don't know about football stereotypes there but here the "crazy British football fan" stereotype is prevalent, as is the "crazy hockey fan", which is especially strong right now because of the playoffs and the fact that I have to LEAVE THE CITY before a game starts to avoid the absolute insanity perpetuated by the fans.

A non-crazy football player can sit in a pub and not piss anyone off, yes. A non-crazy furry can also sit in a pub and not piss anyone off. Some little prick on the internet might insult you because they have nothing better to do, but by the same token a fan of an opposing sports team will probably try to start shit with you too. The Youtube comments section isn't an accurate representation of reality and again, my point has always been that furries are only victims because they like to play victims. Occasionally some asshat will go LOL YIFF IN HELL FURFAG but if you are actually personally hurt by some internet troll, you need to get off the internet for a while.

That being said, you need to get off the internet for a while, or at least learn some reading comprehension skills. Also learn not to take every single argument extremely personally, and that there's always the chance, I don't know, not everything I say is directed at you and that there's more than one aspect to the situation and NOT your black and white view of I AM RIGHT AND RATIONAL AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND DELUDED WAKE UP SHEEPLE. And if that equally asinine topic about "man-haters" was some kind of callout as well, then you've gone from a bit annoying to pathetically delusional.

Unless you are being denied rights or specifically targetted to the point that you fear for your safety, you are only victimized as much as you allow yourself to be.

Why don't you just go down to the pub to relax? Let me know if you get randomly beat up for being a furry.

Also, if you feel like acting like a great soapy mangina feel free to PM me all the illy-wrought insults you see fit, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch of the imagination to consider civil behaviour as a necessary aspect of debate.

[Starwing_93]

I think Sabre HAS made some fair points, but I think Dras pretty much nailed the entire idea of "fursecution", or should I say the lack of it.

Basically, it's the same problem as any fandom, there are probably a much greater percentage of the fandom that aren't all batshit insane that are, but the sheer way that those extreme Furries act is what gives them a bad name and lead them to think that somehow they are despised by all society. Wearing a fox tail in public will get you no more hatred than wearing Vulcan ears, Vampire Fangs, or even a specific Football shirt. You may get the odd look of confusion, but 99.9% of the population are decent human beings that will let you do your own thing.

It's the fact the furries make it so blatantly obvious for themselves that they blow any minor qualm out of proportion, most people associate furries online with hardcore lifestylers because they go out of their way to show how furry they are. I'm a furry, but don't own a fursuit, don't talk about yiff, and don't find some opportunity to make my furry side known in every Facebook post or YouTube comment I make. It's not because I'm ashamed, it's because I'm intelligent enough to know that the only people who are interested in me discussing furries online are OTHER FURRIES. It's keeping the fandom in perspective, I'll discuss Star Fox the odd time with friends, but rarely discuss much else Anthro related and happily joke about the fandom with them in same way I joke with my friend if he discusses too much Otaku stuff. I don't let it consume me, it's just part of my varied range of interests.

If however the furries that do like to make themselves obvious online with comments like "high paw" post on, let's say, a YouTube video with no link to the furry fandom whatsoever, of course they appear a bit crazy as it's like exhibiting yourself to the entire Internet as some sort of deranged obsessive. If they get trolled, it's not because they're a furry, it's because they dont know where to draw the line between being a fan and having an obsession that consumes your entire personality. They work themselves up so much that they feel bring a furry is what defines them as a person and therefore take any slight criticism as if it's a startling blow to their entire "philosophy" on life.

So yeah, that's my theory on it, there are plenty of furries out there that have no problem with trolls and also never become the victims of trolls because they don't ask for it. Either act in a way that doesn't draw attention to yourself outside a fandom, or if you do want to make more of a statement at least have enough self confidence not only too ignore the trolls, but also accept yourself for who you are. Furries aren't really persecuted, they just like to think they are to fit in with the extreme fans, it's an aesthetic and personality defence mechanism that's no different to Emos pretending to be depressed and misunderstood.

[Drasiana]

^ this this This THIS THIS

Nailed it hard enough for an X-rating, my good sir.

If however the furries that do like to make themselves obvious online with comments like "high paw" post on

The dude I knew who did that actually said that in REAL LIFE to his non-furry friends at high school...yeah...

["User"]

I concur with Dras analysis of StarWings post lol.

I can speak from experience when it comes to people not giving a damn you're a furry unless you are overt and very open about it. Most of my friends know I'm a furry, in fact most everyone in the competitive laser tag community does. My team last year as a matter of act ended up going to Hot Topic behind my back and bought me a "Furry" t-shirt with this female fox on it with the caption "I want to fox you" and than insisted I wear it at the tournament. Thanks, but no thanks.

While I get jokes every now and then about conventions, Krystal, or anything involving squirrels the difference is, at least for me, is that I have a fun-loving personality and enjoyable to be around that "compensates" for it and as such the furry thing is really a non-issue as far as any potential negativity. I play along with said jokes and set an example that all furries really should follow when dealing with any of that kind of talk from non-furry friends.

[Asper Sarnoff]

God does indeed hate furries. And especially Krystal fanboys. Milky is living, walking proof of that.

Now, on the more serious side. it be true what Starwing says. Every fandom have its bad eggs. And be it that the rotten ones stink the most, and haters WILL be looking out for the worst examples, they will shape the general publics view on the fandom more than their numbers would suggest. Haters gonna hate anyway. Why care?

[Sabre]

I care because I believe it's a double standard. Again, all furries are assumed to be those worst examples, even if they are not. I don't need to explain it again.

User has an interesting post. I've never seen that. Furries tend to stay with their clique because as soon as the none furs find out they won't talk to you unless you were good friends before hand. As such I find it very hard to believe that story. I would ask if they were making fun of him behind his back, but he wouldn't know, and if he suspected he would likely deny it anyway.

Oh, and for those who don't believe bullying is a serious problem, people only kill themselves and go on killing sprees from it because of chance?

EDIT- A friend of mine brings up a good point. How does the lazer tag community know you are furry?

[Milkyway64]

If it counts, a lot of my personal contacts know I am a furry and no one really cares.

[Xortberg]

I care because I believe it's a double standard. Again, all furries are assumed to be those worst examples, even if they are not. I don't need to explain it again.

User has an interesting post. I've never seen that. Furries tend to stay with their clique because as soon as the none furs find out they won't talk to you unless you were good friends before hand. As such I find it very hard to believe that story. I would ask if they were making fun of him behind his back, but he wouldn't know, and if he suspected he would likely deny it anyway.

Oh, and for those who don't believe bullying is a serious problem, people only kill themselves and go on killing sprees from it because of chance?

IN THIS POST SOMETHING USER SAID CONTRADICTS SOMETHING SABRE SAID SO HE DECIDES NOT TO BELIEVE IT. Despite, of course, that fact that he expects us to believe all of his personal anecdotes that go against our beliefs.

And he's talking about double standards?

["User"]

User has an interesting post. I've never seen that. Furries tend to stay with their clique because as soon as the none furs find out they won't talk to you unless you were good friends before hand. As such I find it very hard to believe that story. I would ask if they were making fun of him behind his back, but he wouldn't know, and if he suspected he would likely deny it anyway.

They poke fun at me all the time (and each other) and I can assure you that it's all in good taste. These guys invite me to events, bars, and other things that people with a social life frequently. Just now I was texted to be invited out Sunday night for a few drinks, although I'm driving so I might have to abstain from anything alcoholic.

And Sabre, I understand social interaction and cues quite well thank you.

[Starwing_93]

The thing about furries being excluded from social situations - absolute bullshit.

In my experience, if somebody is a troll that takes the piss out of furries on the interwebz, it's certainly not the same crowd that do bullying IRL. Most trolls are probably just as much of a loser fanboy about something different, e.g WOW, Call of Duty, Star Trek etc as the furries are about Anthros. Hell, I have a friend who's a furry that also takes great pleasure in trolling other furries, you certainly can't tar all with the same brush.

In my experience, most people who are pricks at School/College probably have never heard of the furry fandom in their life. I don't particularly get on with a certain social group at my college, in the UK we call them chavs, and also struggle with the laddish sports fanatics, but I can garunteee pretty much none of them know what a furry is, it's a different world completely, and since they don't live on the Internet they are completely unaware. Sure I've been attacked for having a Sonic keyring maybe once, but not because it made me a furry, he was more just joking because it's dated and seemingly childish, in which case I couldn't care less

So yeah, furries really needn't worry in real life, I have a friend who a while back stumbled on a yiffy pic on /b/ and expressed at how disgusting he found furries. A year later I openly admitted to him I was a furry because I like Star Fox, Sonic and think the art style is cool, and he wasn't remotely bothered, it's because real life isn't like the Internet and as long as you have a decent explanation and are happy in yourself, people are much more understanding than some geeky 13 year old on a forum. Even most trolls are decent people in reality, I myself admit to trolling a Bieber forum once whilst bored, and for many it's just a funny way to be creative and get a rise out of people. The only real victims are those that choose to take it seriously, in which like many have said, they should get off the Internet.

Trolls are people that spend their time alone, online, passing snide remarks about the way others act. Do you really think these people are all knowing higher beings whose opinions are worth worrying about?

["User"]

Hell, I have a friend who's a furry that also takes great pleasure in trolling other furries, you certainly can't tar all with the same brush.

I know a couple of these individuals as well, both are members of this site. ;)

[Drasiana]

I care because I believe it's a double standard. Again, all furries are assumed to be those worst examples, even if they are not. I don't need to explain it again.

You don't need to, because I KNOW. The thing is, with any group of anything, all x are assumed to be the worst examples. Goths, emos, anime fans, sports fans, gangstas, Trekkies, gays, metalheads, girls, boys, Brits, Americans, Canadians, and, yes, FURRIES. It isn't a "double-standard", it's just how stereotypes work.

I don't need to explain it again.

User has an interesting post. I've never seen that. Furries tend to stay with their clique because as soon as the none furs find out they won't talk to you unless you were good friends before hand. As such I find it very hard to believe that story. I would ask if they were making fun of him behind his back, but he wouldn't know, and if he suspected he would likely deny it anyway.

Authority of social interaction Sabre is on the case again! Because obviously if it hasn't happened to him, then it's happened to nobody! I'm sure User is just inventing his entire group of friends and laser tag community just to prove you wrong. You think winning a pathetic pseudo-argument on a Star Fox forum is that important, eh?

That paranoia, that utterly rediculous presumption that "they're not like me, so they must be making fun of me!" is no one's fault but your own, and you're projecting it onto other people. You are not other people. You are you, and have no right or justification to tell someone that they're a liar just because you haven't had their particular experience.

Oh, and for those who don't believe bullying is a serious problem, people only kill themselves and go on killing sprees from it because of chance?

No one said bullying isn't serious. I just don't consider some 11 year old /b/tard on Youtube shouting LOLFURFAG a "bully" nor do I consider him worth any amount of breath or thought. This coming from someone who was bullied well into high school.

Also, to go out and MURDER THE HELL out of a bunch of your classmates isn't exactly normal, wheras bullying actually kind of is. Most people go through it at some point, but most don't react so violently; those who do have some kind of severe instability. That's not a justification of bullying, but the average person is not going to mow down their science class because someone said their shoes were stupid. It helps not to bully, yes, but with people who have the potential to completely snap like that, the best thing to do is learn to recognize the warning signs and get them help. Suicide falls into this as well in terms of getting help, and suicides are quite complex and another debate altogether.

Starwing's post looks like it got cut off but his points were very good.

EDIT- A friend of mine brings up a good point. How does the lazer tag community know you are furry?

...because he told them?

I know non-furries are horrible scary people but as it turns out, they do tend to speak in recognizable tongue.

[Sabre]

The thing about furries being excluded from social situations - absolute bullshit.

In my experience, if somebody is a troll that takes the piss out of furries on the interwebz, it's certainly not the same crowd that do bullying IRL. Most trolls are probably just as much of a loser fanboy about something different, e.g WOW, Call of Duty, Star Trek etc as the furries are about Anthros. Hell, I have a friend who's a furry that also takes great pleasure in trolling other furries, you certainly can't tar all with the same brush.

In my experience, most people who are pricks at School/College probably have never heard of the furry fandom in their life. I don't particularly get on with a certain social group at my college, in the UK we call them chavs, and also struggle with the laddish sports fanatics, but I can garunteee pretty much none of them know what a furry is, it's a different world completely, and since they don't live on the Internet they are completely unaware. Sure I've been attacked for having a Sonic keyring

I disagree.

I know internet trolls don't bully IRL, internet trolls are bullies who can't actually beat anyone up or have the social skill to wind someone up IRL. That's why I pitty the likes of milky. However, I disagree that chavs don't know what a furry is. You don't have to be a 24-7 internet nerd to know what furry is. Hell, there was a cosplayer I knew once (wanted me to be the heavy from TF2 because I have the same build, boots and gloves) and he was telling me a story of how they kepts getting hasle from chavs (called charvers here) until one day the chavs tried to beat them up, but cosplayers being dressed as ninjas and soldiers had weapons. Last I saw him they never had trouble for a while.

One story I cant confirm, so take it with a grain of salt, was the fur group was banned from a pub. Like I said, I wasn't there, but apparently they were banned for being furry. I wasn't there that day so I think that story has an element of BS to it because why would a pub give up paying customers like that?

Point is, just because they don't visit 4chan daily doesn't mean they don't know that furries are an easy target. Cosplayers are much more niche but they found the local meet and caused trouble.

[Sabre]

They poke fun at me all the time (and each other) and I can assure you that it's all in good taste. These guys invite me to events, bars, and other things that people with a social life frequently. Just now I was texted to be invited out Sunday night for a few drinks, although I'm driving so I might have to abstain from anything alcoholic.

And Sabre, I understand social interaction and cues quite well thank you.

Wow. Designated Driver. What an honour. Clearly the best friends in the world.

You don't need to, because I KNOW. The thing is, with any group of anything, all x are assumed to be the worst examples. Goths, emos, anime fans, sports fans, gangstas, Trekkies, gays, metalheads, girls, boys, Brits, Americans, Canadians, and, yes, FURRIES. It isn't a "double-standard", it's just how stereotypes work.

I don't need to explain it again.

No one said bullying isn't serious. I just don't consider some 11 year old /b/tard on Youtube shouting LOLFURFAG a "bully" nor do I consider him worth any amount of breath or thought. This coming from someone who was bullied well into high school.

Also, to go out and MURDER THE HELL out of a bunch of your classmates isn't exactly normal, wheras bullying actually kind of is. Most people go through it at some point, but most don't react so violently; those who do have some kind of severe instability. That's not a justification of bullying, but the average person is not going to mow down their science class because someone said their shoes were stupid. It helps not to bully, yes, but with people who have the potential to completely snap like that, the best thing to do is learn to recognize the warning signs and get them help. Suicide falls into this as well in terms of getting help, and suicides are quite complex and another debate altogether.

Starwing's post looks like it got cut off but his points were very good.

...because he told them?

I know non-furries are horrible scary people but as it turns out, they do tend to speak in recognizable tongue.

So, he's one of these furries who crosses a line that doesn't get picked on? Consistency? What's that?

As for the steriotypes thing, you do have to explain it again, because I already said, others aren't held up as the worst by default, why are furries?

[Starwing_93]

I imagine if a bunch of fursuiters got banned from a pub it was probably a security risk, Pubs can often see violence and obviously if a group of people choose to completely hide their faces then were something to go down there's no way to identify them. In the same vein you're not allowed to wear full face masks during Halloween at Alton Towers, it's all security but I imagine they Just blew it out of proportion like any furry that believes in fursecution.

As for charvers ( are you from the North East? ) None I know of are likely to know of the furry fandom, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. Most chavs I know are pricks in general and act how they do to everyone for any reason they see fit, a bully is a bully and unless they draw specific attention to themselves then a furry is just another in a long line of targets. Sure wearing ears and a tail may draw attention to you slightly more, but it goes back to my earlier point anyway that any extreme expression of fandom is likely to be ridiculed. It would be no different were it vampire fangs, Multicoloured hair or Fanboy t shirts.

["User"]

Wow. Designated Driver. What an honour. Clearly the best friends in the world.

Wow...it's called driving to a bar and not drinking because I have to drive back home afterwards. Has nothing to do with being a DD... :rolleyes:

[Drasiana]

...others ARE held up as the worst by default.

Let me show you!

If you can guess what Google search terms I used (these all showed up on the first page of image search) then congratulations! You are aware that other stereotypes exist, and yes, they are adhered to by most people.

And most of these are far more likely to be made fun of, because yes, more people are aware of them than they are of furries. Outside of maybe the ten people who still remember that CSI episode, the most exposure most people have had to furries are classic children's cartoons and Egyptian mythology, which aren't particularly taboo.

So, he's one of these furries who crosses a line that doesn't get picked on? Consistency? What's that?

What line are you referring to? Also way to stereotype your own bros, bro.

[Xortberg]

I disagree.

I know internet trolls don't bully IRL, internet trolls are bullies who can't actually beat anyone up or have the social skill to wind someone up IRL. That's why I pitty the likes of milky.

Because that wasn't totally an uncalled-for personal attack. Since Sabre's being illogical, I guess that means that's how debates are supposed to be carried out and I've been doing it wrong my entire life. Jeez, what a bummer. Allow me to try and do this right.

However, I disagree that chavs don't know what a furry is. You don't have to be a 24-7 internet nerd to know what furry is. Hell, there was a cosplayer I knew once (wanted me to be the heavy from TF2 because I have the same build, boots and gloves) and he was telling me a story of how they kepts getting hasle from chavs (called charvers here) until one day the chavs tried to beat them up, but cosplayers being dressed as ninjas and soldiers had weapons. Last I saw him they never had trouble for a while.

Hey, this exact scenario has never happened to me and I've never seen it happen to someone else personally, so it must not be true! Your argument is invalid because my personal experiences say that yours are wrong!

One story I cant confirm, so take it with a grain of salt, was the fur group was banned from a pub. Like I said, I wasn't there, but apparently they were banned for being furry. I wasn't there that day so I think that story has an element of BS to it because why would a pub give up paying customers like that?

Ooh, yay! Another anecdote I can't confirm to be true myself! It must also be wrong! Dang, Sabre. I like your style of debate. It makes things so much easier!

Point is, just because they don't visit 4chan daily doesn't mean they don't know that furries are an easy target. Cosplayers are much more niche but they found the local meet and caused trouble.

Alright, so here's where the opposing party makes a statement that I can't just debunk because it's never happened to me. Now, how am I supposed to deal with that again? Hmm...

Oh yeah! I ignore it completely! Welp, looks like I win because I think I'm right and I'm not going to let anyone else's posts have a fair chance! Hooray!

[Sabre]

I imagine if a bunch of fursuiters got banned from a pub it was probably a security risk, Pubs can often see violence and obviously if a group of people choose to completely hide their faces then were something to go down there's no way to identify them. In the same vein you're not allowed to wear full face masks during Halloween at Alton Towers, it's all security but I imagine they Just blew it out of proportion like any furry that believes in fursecution.

As for charvers ( are you from the North East? ) None I know of are likely to know of the furry fandom, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. Most chavs I know are pricks in general and act how they do to everyone for any reason they see fit, a bully is a bully and unless they draw specific attention to themselves then a furry is just another in a long line of targets. Sure wearing ears and a tail may draw attention to you slightly more, but it goes back to my earlier point anyway that any extreme expression of fandom is likely to be ridiculed. It would be no different were it vampire fangs, Multicoloured hair or Fanboy t shirts.

Give that man a prize. You from the north east too?

The pub thing seems fishy to me to, but the meet only occationally has a fursuit, normally a tail or 2 and a bunch of wolf shirts.

I disagree on the chav thing though. Yes, they will pick on anyone for any reason (even no reason) but if they find an easy target they will go after regaurdless of attention. I think we will have to just agree to disagree on this one. We aren't going to convince each other I don't think.

[Starwing_93]

I'm from near Newcastle

Anyway though, I'm not at all saying Furries don't get some slack IRL as I'm sure it happens, I'm just saying it's no worse than any of the stereotypes that Dras posted above. In fact, it's probably less, far fewer people know furries and to the average guy on the street, a bunch if fursuiters in a bar just look like a Stag Do or birthday party, no different to superheroes or morphsuits really :lol:

[Vy'drach]

I'm rather open about being a furry, but I don't go so far as to walk around in fursuits or with ears/tails attached. I just wear shirts with anthro characters on it, mostly, such as a few shirts from PSURG design (Mischief and Mayhem), a custom designed Star Fox shirt with Krystal on the front and the entire Star Fox team playing Assault's multiplayer on the back (with the caption "Gonna Fox you up," some VGCats shirts, and a few other more generic ones.

In fact, only real encounter I've had with anything was when I went to Gamestop wearing the Star Fox shirt, a guy who had just completed his business turned around, saw me with the short, stopped dead with a "WTF!?" expression on his face, then shot me the thumbs up and said, "Awesome shirt man!" I put two fingers on my brow, then shot them towards him (Similar to how Al does it on Home Improvement) and said, "Thank you." He left, I went to register, end of encounter, and that was most likely more about being gamers than furries, as it's more likely he was a Star Fox fan.

Other than that, people will look at me, then my shirt for a few seconds, and that's more likely the fact that when someone has a design on their shirt, especially with words on it, you just gotta look to see what it is.

Other than that, there's ribbing from friends, which doesn't mean shit. We call one friend fatass, he insults another friend, etc etc, until it comes to me and they tell me to go fuck myself and watch fox porn, I tell them I already did that and call them a racial slur for Mexicans (they're Mexican, and they don't care, so don't worry anyone, I'm not racist. It's just expected to insult back and forth among my friends), they call me a cracker, I call someone a bitch, and a good laugh is had by all. That's about it.

Nothing else has happened other than that, and I don't get bothered by people on the internet, so I've never actually been bullied over being a furry. In fact, if someone on the internet hates me being a furry, it makes me laugh a lot.

[Robert Monroe]

I'm just gonna sit here and point at Sabre's poorly constructed arguments fall apart around him and laugh hysterically because I'm on his ignore list and therefore he won't see this post anyway.

[Rogue Fox]

What we can say about the fandom is what we can say about everything that is considered a subculture or sub group: Most people will not care about how a person dresses, talks, or acts so long as it is not illegal. To every sub group there will be an anti sub group, although their opinions to the general population also don't matter as much as they want it to.

Out of those within a subgroup, most will also not care about what an anti group thinks or says. It it the tiny part of the group that gets drama filled and lashes back. A small

The point is simple: Don't think that everyone hates the sub group you are in. Don't get all dramatic about a person says. Don't lash back at a troll because you are simply feeding their comments, and once they know that someone is upset, they'll antagonize more.