Calling all Assault fans.

[Drasiana]

1: There is no reason you can not say though the Great Fox can not fullfill everyone else's role, though. The GF has scanners, it could scan enemy boss meters. It can fire extremely potent lasers with pretty damn good accuracy, given what it does in Area 6, so it makes Falco superfluous for shooting things (except of course Sector Z). Krystal sensed the signal AND pain. This ultimately justifies her, however weakly. The writing very easily could've went with ROB saying SAURIAN DISTRESS SIGNAL DETECTED then Fox asking Krystal if she senses anything followed by her having a trademarkt scifi psychic headache of empathy. But whatevs.

I suppose it could, given that standpoint. But then again the Great Fox isn't actually a character and putting that weight on it wasn't correct; what it supercedes is the Arwings, not the characters themselves. ROB or Peppy would be the ones that blotted out Krystal at that point. Psygonis already made a good post detailing why having Krystal AND Peppy on the team kind of screwed up the dynamic as well.

And "ultimately justifying" something "weakly" is a massive oxymoron. What this is, is a halfassed attempt at justification on the game's behalf. Anyways, sure, we could say Krystal indeed got us to Sauria given that horribly shaky plot beat (that was more of a plot plop), but remember the question of the poll is whether or not she was instrumental in RESOLVING the game's storyline.

I mean, look at what the others do by comparison, storyline-wise:

Falco saves Fox from robots on Fichina.

Slippy and Beltino do the orbital gate/apoptosis thing.

Wolf saves Fox.

General Pepper gives the mission briefings.

Peppy and even ROB sacrifice themselves so the others can get through.

Pigma is one of the main antagonists and drives the first half of the game.

Krystal sends us to a planet that distracts us from the main plot and doesn't lead to a resolution of a subplot. I suppose you could say "but we saved the dinosaurs!" but that doesn't resolve the main plot either. As sad as it is that maybe some dinosaurs died, the fact that dinosaurs died doesn't have an impact on your ultimate battle with the boss.

Falco and Wolf had to save Fox, because without Fox, the game is over.

Pigma had to carry around the core memory because it was necessary to obtain to locate the homeworld, and getting that shouldn't be easy.

Slippy and Beltino had to do the science crap, because without the science crap, we wouldn't be able to reach the Queen or defeat her.

General Pepper is in the best point of providing exposition.

Peppy and ROB had to sacrifice themselves or else we wouldn't have been able to reach the Queen.

There is no reason we HAD to go to Sauria.

3: It wasn't the plot of Assault is why.

This in itself is really why it shouldn't be there.

The apparent idea was the romance would be an overarching theme that spans the entire series, as evidenced in Command where the player can make or break Fox and Krystal's relationship. This is not uncommon from any serial storytelling series.

Which is why the small beats of their relationship--the annoying doting flirting and whatnot--was "fine" (horrible writing, but the intent was there I guess). However, the problem arises given the length of the game and the structure, which actually follows a three-act film structure. The Sauria stage comprises a good blob of the second act, and it totally screws up the pace of the story given that the plot never actually goes anywhere. All that happens is Fox and Krystal desperately try to ignore that plotline. Yes, it was written SO BADLY that the characters don't even want to acknowledge it. You can always have the "will they or won't they" question, but the characters have to make some kind of decision regarding it if you want it to be important enough to warrant an ENTIRE stage placed at such a critical point in the storyline. No actual development happens with them here; it all seems like a setup for Tricky's "honeymoon" punchline. TRICKY of all people catalyzed that scene while Fox does his best to completely ignore it.

Keep in mind the way this plotline could've played out isn't restricted to the be-all end-all "everlasting love confession" storyline. It could be any manner of smaller storylines leading up to that. Look at ANY television show where the characters didn't become an item until later seasons, but were always hinted at.

The level does not at all change their relationship, and I don't even think it's even mentioned again except in the next cutscene where Fox pretty much says "oh no while we were dicking around on that planet, Corneria got attacked". There's no desperate pleading of Krystal saying, "But Fox, remember on Sauria, how you..." or anything. It just goes back to normal.

If it was a sidequest in a much larger game then there wouldn't be an issue, because there would be room. Or if the stage was allowed its romancy crap but given an overarching goal--even something easy like "Pigma hid the other core memory there". But Assault is a 10-stage game that follows a three-act linear story* that can honestly not afford to wander off into a minor plot that doesn't have any form of resolution.

4: wat.

Story editing bro

_{* transl.: NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD}

[Robert Monroe]

A justification is still a justification, no matter how shitty. Not an oxymoron. Just stupid. Very, very, stupid.

Anyways, I'm done arguing about this. We are going into the fine details of Assault's story now like it were a form of literature, arguing over why a character is marginally more uesless and poorly written than all the other characters. You may be that batfuck insane and totally lost it involving the series, but I haven't. I stopped caring first. Krystal belongs in Assault. Weakly, yes, but she does. She provides cheap romance and cheap psychic copouts, both of which are staples of scifi and space operas since 1977. If you removed her from the game, the story WOULD change, however minorly. The MAIN story would remain unchanged, but the side details are equally important as the main ones.

As for editing, I let my girlfriend handle that. I prefer writing than wasting my time to make sure every little word and syntax is properly spelled out and used. I HAVE STORIES TO TELL DAMMIT.

[Psygonis]

True that now that you mention it, Krystal's line looks damn like Obi-Wan's about "souls screaming and then all gone" thing in Aldeerand...

But well, the Millenium Falcon is late while Fox actually saves Sauria! :troll:

[Thu'um]

i don't wantr krystal to be just a romantic figure in this seires i want her to be independent. the romance is fine, but most of it should be of screen. sorta like assualt

[myu]

That's debatable, whether romance should be off screen or not. It really depends on how much of the plot revolves around it, I guess. Their relationship feels kind of unjustified in Assault. It's pretty much Oh we're both foxes so I guess we should be together lawl and then maybe try to flirt but not really. The romance isn't essential to Assault's plot, but it is kind of a distraction that I think should have been given more attention by the writers. But I also wish the game had been longer than it was, then there would have been more opportunity to clear things up. Maybe.

What would have been interesting is if at that point where Krystal picks up the distress signal from Sauria, another had come in (via Great Fox or something) and Fox had to choose. That's kind of going into the Command field, but I guess you could say Fox chooses on his own (not the player) and leaves Sauria to go save somewhere else first. Then Sauria could be a bigger threat for later in the game, and going there would be more justified. Of course, there are probably a million things they could have done in the game, so yeah.

*waits for post to be picked apart or something*

[Drasiana]

Romance SHOULD develop on-screen, it just shouldn't be done horribly.

Not a bad idea, Myu (I lol'd at the "we're foxes so we should be together lawl" thing, omg someone used that in an actual argument once), but I think it would be kind of weird if there weren't other choices given throughout the game.

The length of Assault worked in that it made it very cinematic. But if you look at any movie, it's not impossible to have several running plotlines either. Assault just did this horribly, but there are plenty of easy ways to add character arcs or rearrange the beats so they play out a little tighter. Here's a few ideas off the top of my head for what could have happened:

Krystal and Peppy plot: Think about it. Peppy wants to retire, and this arc is one of the few given to a supporting character and is resolved by the end of the game. Obviously, Krystal is the one taking his place. So why does this not cause any sort of emotion between them? Krystal now has to live up to an original founding member of Star Fox, so how does this effect her?

Krystal and Fox plot: This can easily be here without resolving the ONE TRUE LOVE~ thing. Krystal is new to the team and simultaneously cares about Fox while trying to impress him. Fox ignores anything possibly percieved as flirting as much as possible. How does Krystal percieve this? Is she worried that he isn't interested, or doesn't care about her the way she does him? We can see what the characters think without them revealing too much to one another. What do the other characters think of their relationship (Tricky aside)? And what sort of action do all these factors cause her to take in the game? Does she plunge headlong into danger against Fox's will (remeniscent of her Adventures personality) that winds up endangering her or him, or even saving him?

-Say Pigma has hidden the last core memory on Sauria (instead of blowing up and leaving it behind intact, wtf)

-They go to Sauria, and it's under attack by the Aparoids

-Fox says he'll go down to save them, and like the other levels, asks that the others provide air support

-Krystal's powers tell her that something (??) is wrong, maybe some sort of Aparoid-infected RedEye (holy shit) that's COMING FOX'S WAY!

-Somehow lose communications (radar jammers, Fox is underground in a temple, etc)

-Krystal comes down and saves him somehow; maybe she can get injured and Fox has an OMG I CARE FOR YOU moment but she's okay and ultimately helped him

-Core memory retrieved, A plot progression, Fox SOMEHOW shows a change in his feelings, B plot progression, Krystal has a direct effect on progression of BOTH plotlines, and Tricky makes a joke about honeymoons.

SEE THAT WASN'T SO FUCKING COMPLICATED, NAMCO

Anyways, I'm done arguing about this. We are going into the fine details of Assault's story now like it were a form of literature, arguing over why a character is marginally more uesless and poorly written than all the other characters. You may be that batfuck insane and totally lost it involving the series, but I haven't. I stopped caring first. Krystal belongs in Assault. Weakly, yes, but she does. She provides cheap romance and cheap psychic copouts, both of which are staples of scifi and space operas since 1977. If you removed her from the game, the story WOULD change, however minorly. The MAIN story would remain unchanged, but the side details are equally important as the main ones.

As for editing, I let my girlfriend handle that. I prefer writing than wasting my time to make sure every little word and syntax is properly spelled out and used. I HAVE STORIES TO TELL DAMMIT.

Story editing and grammatical editing are not the same thing. What I am doing here--the supposed "batfuck insanity"--is story editing, and yes, it's a thing, and it's an important thing, so we don't get shitty fucking stories like Assault's. And Assault is easy game with easy fixes so it's not like I'm sitting in the dank of my room coated in a half inch of cheeto grease with forty different Youtube clips of Assault playing back as I wank to a Krystal-hater group on deviantArt.

And sadly, Assault is a form of literature. It had a script that an actual breathing person, a writer, wrote. It has a story it's trying to convey. It's not a ~MASTERPIECE~ but it is, indeed, a tangible form of writing that somebody actually sat down and typed out, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be exposed to the same level of criticism that befalls anything else of its kind.

And,

The MAIN story would remain unchanged

That is exactly what I have been saying, and what this poll has been asking. Sure I actually explained why, god forbid, instead of whinging HNNNN KRYSTAL SUCKS BECAUSE I SAY SO, but that has been ultimately the point, with a couple digressions on how she really doesn't fit into the team or the setups with her don't go anywhere at all.

And most of the digressions were regarding AJC's insistance that some goofy goddamned throwaway line on Fichina had huge bearing on the overarching plot anyway.

The side details are important, sure...if there is something that justifies their importance. There is no emotional or physical change in either Fox or Krystal regarding their relationship and it doesn't at all tie in to anything else that's happening. It would be important if it had impact, but it doesn't, so it's random bullshit shoehorned in there so the shippers have something to fap to.

[myu]

Romance SHOULD develop on-screen, it just shouldn't be done horribly.

Not a bad idea, Myu (I lol'd at the "we're foxes so we should be together lawl" thing, omg someone used that in an actual argument once).

That is terrible and whoever used that as an argument should feel terrible.

But yeah, I wish they would remake that game or something before moving on to something new (unless that something new just happened to answer questions or fill holes in the story while simultaneously being awesome)

[Drasiana]

What frustrates about me about Star Fox and what has always frustrated me about Star Fox is that it is not, on a fundamental level, awful. There is HUGE potential (that word again) for so many things, and it comes from the way they've set up all the characters. There is beautiful variety and room to explore in the world they have created, but never, EVER do they act upon any of this to bring us a story utilizing this world for its very obvious strengths.

And what frustrates me further is that it wouldn't have been all that hard to do so.

[Psygonis]

Nothing's easy when you do a video game.

Consistent scenari need time, review, a whole team of writers/scenarists. Additional voice acting means you'll need more actors or for a longer time. Cutscenes don't make themselves, levels either... You have to take into account the play-time format, the data-capacity of your game support... And time is money, as you know.

I feel frustrated too, but you have to acknowledge that these are no trivial matters for a gaming company... :/

[Thu'um]

What frustrates about me about Star Fox and what has always frustrated me about Star Fox is that it is not, on a fundamental level, awful. There is HUGE potential (that word again) for so many things, and it comes from the way they've set up all the characters. There is beautiful variety and room to explore in the world they have created, but never, EVER do they act upon any of this to bring us a story utilizing this world for its very obvious strengths.

And what frustrates me further is that it wouldn't have been all that hard to do so.

thats probobly my favorite thing about star fox, the potential for asome games based in the fantastic universe they have created...

[Psygonis]

Yeah, that's why we love it, but we'd like to see all that potential made real! D:

[Thu'um]

Yeah, that's why we love it, but we'd like to see all that potential made real! D:

thats why i at first took a great intrest in shadows of laylat :)

[Psygonis]

In case of it hasn't been made clear enough: No Krystal in Shadows of Lylat!

(Not even for April Fools! )

[Drasiana]

Nothing's easy when you do a video game.

Consistent scenari need time, review, a whole team of writers/scenarists. Additional voice acting means you'll need more actors or for a longer time. Cutscenes don't make themselves, levels either... You have to take into account the play-time format, the data-capacity of your game support... And time is money, as you know.

I feel frustrated too, but you have to acknowledge that these are no trivial matters for a gaming company...

I know very much what goes into a game, bro. But look at the standard of most video games. Assault didn't even do that well when it came out. Feeling sorry for Namco of all people is not an excuse when they have games that are played by and with the big boys (especially being that they're using a Nintendo property). And anyways, writing a script that isn't retarded isn't particularly complicated. The horrible dialogue and obtuse story points exhibited in the game weren't there because a graphics designer couldn't get his shit together. The game could have the exact same level and game structure and a completely different script and that in itself would make a lot of it exponentially better.

[Psygonis]

Good franchises come in, bad games come out... You can't explain that! XD

[Thu'um]

In case of it hasn't been made clear enough: No Krystal in Shadows of Lylat!

(Not even for April Fools! )

I'm aware, but krystal is not the soul reaosn i like star fox, not at all.

[kkstarfox]

I'm aware, but krystal is not the soul reaosn i like star fox, not at all.

And there we go! There are some people, however, the soul reason they like starfox is because of her. And that is why there is so much filthy wanking material of her.

["User"]

And there we go! There are some people, however, the soul reason they like starfox is because of her. And that is why there is so much filthy wanking material of her.

In some cases though "negative" popularity is better than having no "new blood" at all as far as fans are concerned.

[Thu'um]

And there we go! There are some people, however, the soul reason they like starfox is because of her. And that is why there is so much filthy wanking material of her.

alot of people asume if you like krystal, she is the only reason you like star fox

[Drasiana]

In some cases though "negative" popularity is better than having no "new blood" at all as far as fans are concerned.

"Haters make me famous!~

..._{like Hitler!}"

[Psygonis]

Yaaaaay!

That's a well-earned Godwin point for you Dras'! :3

[Thu'um]

"Haters make me famous!~

..._{like Hitler!}"

yes and justin beaber, and micheal jakson, and jospeh stalin. User does have apoint, getting the name star fox just out there for a negative reason is better then not getting out there at all.

["User"]

"Haters make me famous!~

..._{like Hitler!}"

This comparison is beyond unfair. D:

Anyways, I stand by my original point. Regardless of whether the popularity is good or bad getting new fans into the Star Fox series, even if it's originally through Krystal, is better than having no such loyalty or support from potential future fans. Yes, there are better ways to get new blood into the series (like you know...better games?) but in the interim this is what we have to deal with for now. ;)

[kkstarfox]

Boobs bring new people to an old franchise. Yeah, lame business tactic but it drags guys in all the time...

[myu]

It's kind of like a Twilight effect. The series is terrible, but so many people started reading more because of it.