jesseboyd7 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 College education is the largest scam in U.S. history! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE&feature=pyv&ad=6739540474&kw=conspiracy If any of you are thinking about going to college or a university take a look at this video and have a second view on schooling. I'm open for a fair debate. I'm personally a victim of being in debt of a 2 - year degree in computer science and not looking forward to go to school again!!! Schooling is getting more expensive these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"User" Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 This video is over an hour long - no thanks. A person with a degree on average will make a million dollars more over the course of their lifetimes than someone with just a high school diploma according to some stats I read. That being said though, I know for a fact more and more people are getting good jobs these days based on past work experience or connections rather than "merely" a degree. My most recent girlfriend has a degree in biology and is doing part time schooling for her masters, she's my age and hasn't found a job in her field. If you have 5 years of computer related experience in some field and know everything that a job would require of you even though you don't have a degree or diploma some employers will actually hire you because they prefer their candidate to have work experience as well as actually know what they are doing (as opposed to a recent graduate with zero real world work experience). Also, keep in mind that universities churning out degrees plays a world in the U.S. economy as well, a bigger one than most of you might think. It's always a good idea when entering post secondary education to do your research on the long term job outlooks for the field you are getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psygonis Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 TL;DW! Higher degrees are not meant for base-industry works, that why you do 2-years professional formations in small structures that are "real world-oriented" and 4-years BSc. then 2-years MSc. and 3-years PhD. to do things that require extensive knowledge, such as research or educational or management positions and so on and so forth... People should not invest their time, money and efforts in degrees that do not match their professional goals. What is broken is that everyone want college degrees, with only a handful of available job positions that would actually require them. You want to have an IT job? You don't need a BSc. in IT, I agree. 2 years in a pragmatic and industry-oriented institute is more than enough. Then, if you want to improve things, develop new tech, you need advance knowledge and this requires advanced degrees. Higher degrees' tution fees (and enrollement numbers) should be based on available job pools to maintain the value of the degrees, by not flooding the job-markets with expensive not-professionally-experienced-enough graduates. And you have the chance in the US to have a widespread system of excellency scholarships to help bright people to go over fees, not all countries have that. The one actual point the video makes is that people just don't want to do work that make a country live. When they say college is scam, they're mistaken. It's added value is just diluted because of too much students. Deal with it. All young people *should* not get a college degree. People should get their country rollin' (and no hatin'! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 ya a whatched first 1o minutes, education is rather corrup in some ways today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"User" Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Higher degrees are not meant for base-industry works, that why you do 2-years professional formations in small structures that are "real world-oriented" and 4-years BSc. then 2-years MSc. and 3-years PhD. to do things that require extensive knowledge, such as research or educational or management positions and so on and so forth... What "regular" doctorates end up requiring a total of 9 years of education? In every case that I've heard of people have gotten their PhD's or doctorates after 7 or 8 years of post secondary education. A medical doctor for example typically gets a 4 year BSc (which can be completed in 3 years through fasttracking) and then goes onto medical school which is another 4 years (although they then usually have to do a one year residency program to actually have the license to practice). I have heard of no one that has done three more years of school to get their PhD after obtaining their Masters. 9 years is a bit of stretch unless you take courses or something that ends up not being required for the doctorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Yeah, not much to say on the subject myself, but I figured I'd post to agree with the others; hour long video? No thanks. If you're going to post some crazy long video as evidence, don't just post it and leave it at that. Nobody's going to take an hour out of their day just to reply to a topic. If you must post a long video, post it and then elaborate on the key points in it that you are trying to get across. In fact, do that with any video you post. Don't use your evidence as an argument, argue using your evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psygonis Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 User> Lengths are not the same everywhere in the world. In Europe, the standard planning is 3/2/3 years (since the Bologna Accords, approx. 10 years ago), or more accurately 180/120/180 ECTS credits, with usually 30 ECTS/semester. So yeah, getting a PhD usually takes 8 years (depending on the subjects and specific universities' requirements). I'm not sure about the US/Canada planning though. BSc. is 4 years, and then the MSc. can be only 1 year long, but only in specific cases as far as I heard of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"User" Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 User> Lengths are not the same everywhere in the world. In Europe, the standard planning is 3/2/3 years (since the Bologna Accords, approx. 10 years ago), or more accurately 180/120/180 ECTS credits, with usually 30 ECTS/semester. So yeah, getting a PhD usually takes 8 years (depending on the subjects and specific universities' requirements). I'm not sure about the US/Canada planning though. BSc. is 4 years, and then the MSc. can be only 1 year long, but only in specific cases as far as I heard of... I am well aware lengths aren't the same everywhere in the world (I know a radiologist who studied for 13 years in the Philippines) but since you are from Canada and this website and most of it's members are from North America I assumed you were referring to North American based PhD's and doctorates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psygonis Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 For the x-th time. I'm studying right now in Canada, but I'm not from Canada!!! And it pisses me off that they are differences because with my engineering degree, I have a MSc. in Europe, but only a BSc. in US/Canada, so I can't look for a PhD. lab/school on your side of the Atlantic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"User" Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 For the x-th time. I'm studying right now in Canada, but I'm not from Canada!!! And it pisses me off that they are differences because with my engineering degree, I have a MSc. in Europe, but only a BSc. in US/Canada, so I can't look for a PhD. lab/school on your side of the Atlantic... I did not know this! D: But yeah, there are lots of people from other countries who have degrees and the like and they aren't valid over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesseboyd7 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Yeah, not much to say on the subject myself, but I figured I'd post to agree with the others; hour long video? No thanks. If you're going to post some crazy long video as evidence, don't just post it and leave it at that. Nobody's going to take an hour out of their day just to reply to a topic. If you must post a long video, post it and then elaborate on the key points in it that you are trying to get across. In fact, do that with any video you post. Don't use your evidence as an argument, argue using your evidence. Thanks for the advice Xortberg. I'll try to elaborate and to create points of what my position is on the topic. Especially like you said if the video documentary is an hour long, must break it down into chunks. Thanks again :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Wow, what an intellectually dishonest video. It's a piece of elitist libertarian propaganda. While there are issues with high schools and laws like No Child Left Behind, it isn't a broad conspiracy to trick people into going to college. Also, the video claimed that colleges are responsible for the price gouging in textbooks. That is false. The publishers are the ones doing the gouging. The university I am going to has relatively inexpensive ways of obtaining books available, both on-campus and off. Also, public universities are non-profit, so there is no profit motives for the so-called textbook collusion this video speaks of. That doesn't mean there aren't bad apples. I had a professor require a book written by another professor in the department once, but that is not an indication of a systematic problem. When it comes to tuition increases, they conveniently left out that over the past 30 years, state funding to colleges has dropped. They have to get the money somewhere, and when the state doesn't help, they have to raise tuition. The video blames unemployment on government spending. That's a load of crap. Unemployment is a self-feeding problem because consumer demand is the driver of the economy. When the economy tanked, people stopped buying things. This made business have to lay people off, which meant there were even fewer people buying things, and the cycle continues. When no one else is spending, the GOVERNMENT has to in order to break the cycle. Sadly, our government has been spending money on bombs and rax cuts instead of on jobs programs and economic stimulus. Also, they keep talking about skyrocketing inflation. lolwut? What inflation? Since the downturn, there has been little inflation. Inflation is so not an issue that the Fed's interest rate right now is about 0% AND the Fed is buying treasuries (Quantitative Easing). Libertarians love to bash the Fed, but the Fed isn't stupid. If inflation were a real problem, you'd see the Fed dump the treasuries and you'd see rates going up. Having a little bit of inflation is actually healthy for an economy. The issue is hyperinflation, which is NOT happening. These people are just Chicken Littles. I stopped watching the video at this point because I couldn't stand the stench from the bullshit anymore. Now, I am not going to defend everything about the education system, but the reality is that jobs for non-college education people are rapidly either being outsourced or have serious negative wage pressure. I think this needs to be addressed. Trade policy changes are a must to stem the tide of outsourcing, and also the minimum wage should be pegged to inflation. Also, the vilification of unions needs to stop and the right of workers to organize should be fully restored. The one thing the video was correct on is that not everyone is college material. These people need jobs, too. Also, people that follow their hearts instead of their minds and get degrees in subjects like Art History need jobs. There was a time you could have a house, a decent car (not a Lambo like the video implies), and raise a couple of kids on just a high school diploma. Unions were a big part of this, as they ensured that wages were kept to a living standard. But, I digress. Not everyone will be a Mark Zuckerberg and create a money-pit of a website. Not everyone will be a Bill Gates and have the foresight to know who buy/steal software from and sell license it to IBM. Since living-wage jobs for people without college degrees are going overseas, there isn't much choice anymore. Of course, the video doesn't talk about all of that. Libertarians love outsourcing, after all. Libertarians and Corporatist love to bash education. Why? Because educated people see through their bullshit. If we're all spoon-fed libertarian/Neo-conservative ideals in grade school, and told "College is a Scam, don't Go" then there is no one to challenge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm in the UK, and as someone who has been through the system, I think it's like the police force, or indeed any goverment run thing. It's not a grand conspirasy, rather it's a simple case of incompetence. To use an old phrase- "Cock up before conspiracy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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