Fan Fiction vs Original Fiction

[Furygun81]

Fan-fiction is good for beginners, because they mean that you don't have to create everything, you can work with a set of already created characters and worlds, with their personalities known, it's much easier to understand the writing.

With original work, you have to portray the image and create the entire world from scratch, and you have to portray the entire world through the book. This is entirely different, and nobody knows about the world you are in, or the characters mentioned because they are new, and no-one has seen them before. If you're writing a sequel to your original work, it will be somewhat easier if your audience has read the previous book, they will know somewhat of the environment.

[chaos_Leader]

Fan-fiction is good for beginners, because they mean that you don't have to create everything, you can work with a set of already created characters and worlds, with their personalities known, it's much easier to understand the writing.

With original work, you have to portray the image and create the entire world from scratch, and you have to portray the entire world through the book. This is entirely different, and nobody knows about the world you are in, or the characters mentioned because they are new, and no-one has seen them before. If you're writing a sequel to your original work, it will be somewhat easier if your audience has read the previous book, they will know somewhat of the environment.

I have to somewhat disagree with you on this point. It is a very, very common misconception that writing for fanfiction is easy because of the "ready made setting". This point can be true in many circumstances depending the source material. Star Wars/Star Trek for example has tons and tons of reference material for an aspiring fanfic writer to consult, which in it of itself can be an interesting challenge to work around and sift through. Whereas I've made my point earlier at how absolutely bare and skeletal the setting of Star Fox is, and how the aspiring fanfic writer for Star Fox has to build the setting around only a handful of vague points. Of course, writers will often buy into various collective assumptions about certain aspects, and assume that their target fandom buys into it also; a very popular one whether you like it or not is the idea of a homosexual relationship between Fox/Wolf etc. That's a whole other debate that doesn't need to be elaborated on here.

Also, many original works, especially works that are not highly exotic Sci-Fi or Fantasy, will build off of somewhat familiar environments. Any novel that is set in a known geographic area on the planet Earth has a setting already, we live in it. Even a fictional geographic area will almost invariably draw inspiration directly from some known place. In High Fantasy, a sizable majority of these "original worlds" are going to draw their inspiration from similar settings that came before; if you want to trace it back to Tolkein, even he built his Middle Earth setting by drawing inspiration ancient Norse/Celtic/Germanic folklore and mythology. That's okay, that's how they work, it gives the reader a basic framework that they are familiar with, and the author puts their spin on it using his/her plot and characters.

There is no "easy mode" or "hard mode" that is decided by what the author chooses to write. What determines "easy" or "hard" is entirely subjective to the author, and how much effort they put into what they write, regardless of what it is. So please stop making these broad, asinine assumptions about what is or isn't "easy", or what is or isn't "good".

Dras said it pretty well here with this:

Crappy fanfiction exists, crappy original material exists, and all those degrees of crappiness boil down to the same artistic shortcomings on the writer's part.

[Drasiana]

Also, back what I said about spec scripts; fanfiction can be a vital part of being hired in some film industry-related careers, sometimes even more so than original works. To write good fanfic has its own set of special skillsets that are just as difficult to master as some of the demands of original fiction.

[chaos_Leader]

Also, back what I said about spec scripts; fanfiction can be a vital part of being hired in some film industry-related careers, sometimes even more so than original works.

Introduce me to an agent or other talent scout with this mindset, and maybe I'll believe you.

Edit:

To write good fanfic has its own set of special skillsets that are just as difficult to master as some of the demands of original fiction.

I agree with you completely, but the thing is, fanfiction is mired in this practically ubiquitous stigma of mediocrity. Someone says the word "fan-fiction" and nearly everyone in the room groans and tries to change the subject. To some extent, I can't blame them for having that attitude; I know what it's like. On the other hand, the precious few who actually try to compose a good story, and the even fewer who are effective at it, get lumped up in there with everyone else.

So you can understand my skepticism when I hear "you can get hired via fanfiction".

[Drasiana]

Googling it wasn't so hard, was it?

While I'm at it, have a competition that not only gives you money, but submits you to numerous agencies and production companies. My friend placed in it the last time, but lost to a CSI spec.

No, it isn't the exact same as ff.net-style fanfiction, but then again, the only thing that separates it is basic format.

edit: I should mention that screenwriting software like Final Draft specifically comes with templates for existing, airing shows for you to use as reference when writing your own. It's what I used when I wrote my Fringe spec, which is a recommended portfolio piece by my mentors, who were all credited filmmakers. Like I said in my earlier post, the ability to write characters and worlds invented by other people are vital, especially considering how many writers are often attached to television productions.

[unoservix]

I'm not sure why we're assuming in this thread that Sturgeon's Law applies only to fanfiction.

'cuz, uh, it doesn't.

[chaos_Leader]

I'm not saying Sturgeon's Law applies only to fanfiction. I'm saying there's a stigma attached to fanfiction that skews the general perception of it.

[Salem]

I think both are good because with out the original where is the Fanfic and if there is no Fanfic wouldn't that mean the original isn't very popular?

[Drasiana]

...er, no

The Shawshank Redemption has a whole two fanfics on fanfiction.net. That doesn't mean no one saw/liked the Shawshank Redemption :I

[Vy'drach]

Shawshank Redemption fan-fics? What sorcery is this?

[Drasiana]

I was surprised there was even that many there, honestly.

[Vy'drach]

The idea of it just boggles the mind. I can't even begin to imagine them.

[Salem]

...er, no

The Shawshank Redemption has a whole two fanfics on fanfiction.net. That doesn't mean no one saw/liked the Shawshank Redemption :I

ok maybe I shouldn't use exact terms but you know what I mean.

[unoservix]

no we don't.

yes, there are two Shawshank Redemption fanfics on FF.net, and at least one of them is slash. but given the original subject matter i suppose it's not completely out of left field. just out of, like, shallow left field.

but i'd totally read a fanfic where Andy and Red go to Mexico together but then a zombie apocalypse happens and they have to fight their way back against a horde of the shambling undead. and then it turns out that the zombies were awakened by Dr. Eggman, working with Andross, Osama bin Laden, the Joker, and a random clone of Hitler, so they have to journey around the world to stop them. and they wind up having to recruit Indiana Jones to lead them through the misty jungles of Central America, where they find the Fellowship of the Ring, plus, like, i dunno, whoever Samuel L. Jackson's character from Snakes on a Plane was. and then they have to find Captain Jack Sparrow to take them across the Atlantic, and they get attacked by Sea Nazis (which are Nazis that are like dolphins but evil because they're Nazis), but they get saved by the Red October and Lithuanian Soviet Sea Captain Sean Connery. so they wind up in England and have to recruit the help of the Doctor to get to Europe so they can search for the evil villain lair. and then they meet King Leonidas who holds off the zombies with his mighty hairless chest and they hitch a ride on Optimus Prime (because he's a truck you see) across the Ukraine. then Boromir dies, because, y'know, that's kind of his thing, and everyone is sad. then Samuel L. Jackson gets sick of these MOTHERFUCKING ZOMBIES ON THIS MOTHERFUCKING PLANET and while he's making them go the fuck to sleep forever, Andy and Red meet Rainbow Dash and she takes them to Dr. Eggman's hug tower which is big onto the sun, and John Freeman destroys Eggman's assorted minions by pressing buttons and barking necks and things. and then the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles show up and punch Eggman in the face with Hitler. but when Eggman dies, it turns out that the real mastermind was the undead Warden Norton, so Andy has to use the power of irrepressible hope and mad geology and banking skills to defeat him. and the tower starts to explode, but Red uses his mad acquiring-contraband skills to find a way out.

after the world is peaceful and happy and there is no bad and my student loans are spontaneously completely forgiven and whenever anyone on Earth reaches into their pocket, they find another Reese's peanut butter cup in there. and amid such tranquility, the people prosper and all is well.

THE END.

so yeah i'd read that

[kkstarfox]

no we don't.

yes, there are two Shawshank Redemption fanfics on FF.net, and at least one of them is slash. but given the original subject matter i suppose it's not completely out of left field. just out of, like, shallow left field.

but i'd totally read a fanfic where Andy and Red go to Mexico together but then a zombie apocalypse happens and they have to fight their way back against a horde of the shambling undead. and then it turns out that the zombies were awakened by Dr. Eggman, working with Andross, Osama bin Laden, the Joker, and a random clone of Hitler, so they have to journey around the world to stop them. and they wind up having to recruit Indiana Jones to lead them through the misty jungles of Central America, where they find the Fellowship of the Ring, plus, like, i dunno, whoever Samuel L. Jackson's character from Snakes on a Plane was. and then they have to find Captain Jack Sparrow to take them across the Atlantic, and they get attacked by Sea Nazis (which are Nazis that are like dolphins but evil because they're Nazis), but they get saved by the Red October and Lithuanian Soviet Sea Captain Sean Connery. so they wind up in England and have to recruit the help of the Doctor to get to Europe so they can search for the evil villain lair. and then they meet King Leonidas who holds off the zombies with his mighty hairless chest and they hitch a ride on Optimus Prime (because he's a truck you see) across the Ukraine. then Boromir dies, because, y'know, that's kind of his thing, and everyone is sad. then Samuel L. Jackson gets sick of these MOTHERFUCKING ZOMBIES ON THIS MOTHERFUCKING PLANET and while he's making them go the fuck to sleep forever, Andy and Red meet Rainbow Dash and she takes them to Dr. Eggman's hug tower which is big onto the sun, and John Freeman destroys Eggman's assorted minions by pressing buttons and barking necks and things. and then the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles show up and punch Eggman in the face with Hitler. but when Eggman dies, it turns out that the real mastermind was the undead Warden Norton, so Andy has to use the power of irrepressible hope and mad geology and banking skills to defeat him. and the tower starts to explode, but Red uses his mad acquiring-contraband skills to find a way out.

after the world is peaceful and happy and there is no bad and my student loans are spontaneously completely forgiven and whenever anyone on Earth reaches into their pocket, they find another Reese's peanut butter cup in there. and amid such tranquility, the people prosper and all is well.

THE END.

so yeah i'd read that

I rest my case, fan-fic... not so good. :troll:

[unoservix]

philistine.

*contemptuously sips at champagne while sneering at your lower social station through my monocle*

[chaos_Leader]

. . . fanfiction is mired in this practically ubiquitous stigma of mediocrity. Someone says the word "fan-fiction" and nearly everyone in the room groans and tries to change the subject. To some extent, I can't blame them for having that attitude; I know what it's like. On the other hand, the precious few who actually try to compose a good story, and the even fewer who are effective at it, get lumped up in there with everyone else.

no we don't.

yes, there are two Shawshank Redemption fanfics on FF.net, and at least one of them is slash. but given the original subject matter i suppose it's not completely out of left field. just out of, like, shallow left field.

but i'd totally read a fanfic where Andy and Red go to Mexico together but then a zombie apocalypse happens and they have to fight their way back against a horde of the shambling undead. and then it turns out that the zombies were awakened by Dr. Eggman, working with Andross, Osama bin Laden, the Joker, and a random clone of Hitler, so they have to journey around the world to stop them. and they wind up having to recruit Indiana Jones to lead them through the misty jungles of Central America, where they find the Fellowship of the Ring, plus, like, i dunno, whoever Samuel L. Jackson's character from Snakes on a Plane was. and then they have to find Captain Jack Sparrow to take them across the Atlantic, and they get attacked by Sea Nazis (which are Nazis that are like dolphins but evil because they're Nazis), but they get saved by the Red October and Lithuanian Soviet Sea Captain Sean Connery. so they wind up in England and have to recruit the help of the Doctor to get to Europe so they can search for the evil villain lair. and then they meet King Leonidas who holds off the zombies with his mighty hairless chest and they hitch a ride on Optimus Prime (because he's a truck you see) across the Ukraine. then Boromir dies, because, y'know, that's kind of his thing, and everyone is sad. then Samuel L. Jackson gets sick of these MOTHERFUCKING ZOMBIES ON THIS MOTHERFUCKING PLANET and while he's making them go the fuck to sleep forever, Andy and Red meet Rainbow Dash and she takes them to Dr. Eggman's hug tower which is big onto the sun, and John Freeman destroys Eggman's assorted minions by pressing buttons and barking necks and things. and then the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles show up and punch Eggman in the face with Hitler. but when Eggman dies, it turns out that the real mastermind was the undead Warden Norton, so Andy has to use the power of irrepressible hope and mad geology and banking skills to defeat him. and the tower starts to explode, but Red uses his mad acquiring-contraband skills to find a way out.

after the world is peaceful and happy and there is no bad and my student loans are spontaneously completely forgiven and whenever anyone on Earth reaches into their pocket, they find another Reese's peanut butter cup in there. and amid such tranquility, the people prosper and all is well.

THE END.

so yeah i'd read that

I rest my case, fan-fic... not so good.

I rest my case.

Excuse me while I step in front of a semi on the freeway

Edit: What the hell is up with this lag??? it takes me like 20 minutes to do anything. And it took me like 5 tries to get this edit up.

[Robert Monroe]

While fanfiction can be good, and well written, it is ultimately second fiddle to original content. Fan fiction puts you within the confines of an existing lore, with pre-determined boundaries to obey. While there IS something to be said of the skills required to know how to write WELL within these preset boundaries, there is that much more to be said of those who write their own characters from scratch and set up their own worlds with their own boundaries.

[chaos_Leader]

While fanfiction can be good, and well written, it is ultimately second fiddle to original content. Fan fiction puts you within the confines of an existing lore, with pre-determined boundaries to obey. While there IS something to be said of the skills required to know how to write WELL within these preset boundaries, there is that much more to be said of those who write their own characters from scratch and set up their own worlds with their own boundaries.

Not necessarily true in all circumstances, as I've stated above:

I have to somewhat disagree with you on this point. It is a very, very common misconception that writing for fanfiction is easy because of the "ready made setting". This point can be true in many circumstances depending the source material. Star Wars/Star Trek for example has tons and tons of reference material for an aspiring fanfic writer to consult, which in it of itself can be an interesting challenge to work around and sift through. Whereas I've made my point earlier at how absolutely bare and skeletal the setting of Star Fox is, and how the aspiring fanfic writer for Star Fox has to build the setting around only a handful of vague points. Of course, writers will often buy into various collective assumptions about certain aspects, and assume that their target fandom buys into it also; a very popular one whether you like it or not is the idea of a homosexual relationship between Fox/Wolf etc. That's a whole other debate that doesn't need to be elaborated on here.

Also, many original works, especially works that are not highly exotic Sci-Fi or Fantasy, will build off of somewhat familiar environments. Any novel that is set in a known geographic area on the planet Earth has a setting already, we live in it. Even a fictional geographic area will almost invariably draw inspiration directly from some known place. In High Fantasy, a sizable majority of these "original worlds" are going to draw their inspiration from similar settings that came before; if you want to trace it back to Tolkein, even he built his Middle Earth setting by drawing inspiration ancient Norse/Celtic/Germanic folklore and mythology. That's okay, that's how they work, it gives the reader a basic framework that they are familiar with, and the author puts their spin on it using his/her plot and characters.

There is no "easy mode" or "hard mode" that is decided by what the author chooses to write. What determines "easy" or "hard" is entirely subjective to the author, and how much effort they put into what they write, regardless of what it is. So please stop making these broad, asinine assumptions about what is or isn't "easy", or what is or isn't "good".

And expanding on this point, whatever is "good" or "bad" is likewise entirely subjective to the reader who all have a wide array of opinions. I'm laying my particular opinion out here and doing my best to present it in a reasonable light.

[Robert Monroe]

No, there actually are defined, objective criteria to meet for writing to make it "good" or "bad", such as use of language, depth and breadth of the subject matter, suspension of disbelief, and so on and so forth. Just because Original Fiction can be based off of the real world does not put it in the same tier as fanfiction, because you can still literally do whatever you want with it. With fanfics, you HAVE to stay within the confines of the subject matter, or else it ceases to be a fanfic. Just because original scifi and fantasy draw influence from the real world does not equate them to stayin within the confines of these real world myths: Middle Earth is heavily inspired by Norse and English mythology, for example, but it does not follow Norse or English mythology's rules because it is its own setting, with its own rules. Fanfics have boundaries that can't be crossed. Original fiction makes up its own boundaries as it goes along.

[chaos_Leader]

Look, at this point, we're just splitting hairs and arguing semantics. I can and will get into the whole "camp aesthetic" to defend the relative nature of art that defines "good" vs. "bad", as well as absurdism and other deliberately provocative and/or confusing methods. But this is an entirely different argument that goes well beyond fanfiction to encompass all art as we know it.

Fanfiction does very often have boundaries, but despite what you claim, writers can and do push against these boundaries, and sometimes cross them. Most of the time, as you say, the act of crossing these boundaries make the piece "cease to be fanfiction".

One of my points here is that these "boundaries" do not inherently make fanfiction any "better" or any "worse" than original fiction. As Dras has stated before, it offers a different landscape of challenges to the writer, but does not automatically upgrade/downgrade the quality of the written work.

[Robert Monroe]

Look, at this point, we're just splitting hairs and arguing semantics. I can and will get into the whole "camp aesthetic" to defend the relative nature art that defines "good" vs. "bad", as well as absurdism and other deliberately provocative and/or confusing methods. But this is an entirely different argument that goes well beyond fanfiction to encompass all art as we know it.

Fanfiction does very often have boundaries, but despite what you claim, writers can and do push against these boundaries, and sometimes cross them. Most of the time, as you say, the act of crossing these boundaries make the piece "cease to be fanfiction".

One of my points here is that these "boundaries" do not inherently make fanfiction any "better" or any "worse" than original fiction. As Dras has stated before, it offers a different landscape of challenges to the writer, but does not automatically upgrade/downgrade the quality of the written work.

The QUALITY of the work can be great, but the test of the author's mettle as a creator is hindered within the confines of the fiction. That is what I am saying. People who religiously write fan fiction and write it GOOD are wasting their talents if they can only be inspired to write about stuff that isn't theirs. The truly great writer must not only have mastery of storytelling and writing, but also creation.

[chaos_Leader]

So the defining criteria of a great author is creation?

At least in some niches of fanfiction, I can tell you there is ample opportunity for creation, of all varieties.

If you still insist on holding all fanfiction and those who write it on a lower tier than original work and their writers, okay. I don't blame you, I really don't; I'm used to being looked down upon and considered filth because I have the gall to commit the deadly literary sin of writing fanfiction.

Like all things art and literature related, the whole thing is tangled up in personal subjectivity.

(if I came off as bitter, well maybe just a little, I don't mind it)

[Robert Monroe]

So the defining criteria of a great author is creation?

At least in some niches of fanfiction, I can tell you there is ample opportunity for creation, of all varieties.

If you still insist on holding all fanfiction and those who write it on a lower tier than original work and their writers, okay. I don't blame you, I really don't; I'm used to being looked down upon and considered filth because I have the gall to commit the deadly literary sin of writing fanfiction.

Like all things art and literature related, the whole thing is tangled up in personal subjectivity.

(if I came off as bitter, well maybe just a little, I don't mind it)

See I like the part where you act like you read my post but obviously didn't.

The defining criteria of a writer is to bring together storytelling, use of language, AND original creation. You can not master one and just that, and fanfiction inhibits that creation element. I never looked down on you, I never said fanfiction was a sin, and you are not filthy. Quit being such a melodramatic, self-persecuting queen and actually pay attention to what I say.

Or don't, I don't really care.

[chaos_Leader]

What I wrote there was a little snarky, wasn't it?

Yep, we're splitting teeny tiny hairs now, and it's really not worth it to get worked up.

I will still maintain that the creative aspects are not always stunted by the fact that it's fanfiction. You will still maintain that the fact that it's fanfiction inhibits creative aspects, which I do agree with under most circumstances. I'm simply not one to deal in absolutes, particularly when I consider myself an outlier.