Matter of Pride

[Harlow]

BEWARE! Totally racist a*holey rant coming through!

I've recently saw there were many events and movements regarding pride, joy and self-awareness over things like skin color, ethincity and varied sexual orientations. To point out, I don't have a problem with anyone regarding who they are and how they're like (of course, to a limit), but I think all this pride thing may be getting a bit out of hand and double-standarized.

First, if you're gay, bi, trans, black, hispanic, asian, handicapped... and you're proud of it. You're a hero! People should be like you! You're the perfect example of a human being.

Instead, if you're white, straight, perfectly healthy... and you're proud of it. You're criminal, despicable, a shame to everyone else and you deserve to die on the worst way.

Of course, excluding any other relevant aspects, like overall personality and manners.

Just because history was mostly against some individuals over non-important superficial things or things one didnt' had any control over the matter doesn't mean any of these "underestimated" people have the right reverse the role (them being the oppresors)

But what about the groups of White, Straight extremists who hate everyone else? Who says Black, Hispanic or LGBT people can't be racist a*holes too? (Which, by experience, I've seen and been told about these examples) Putting those people above you just based on these aspects is just as racist as putting them under you.

Then it's the pride demostrations and the support groups.

On Venezuela, some people view the "pride" as being a close-minded, Bible ridden, Communist US-hating slobs who prefer to suck off the Goverment tit. Um... Am I missing something? I'm not proud of that. I'm proud of the potential we have to become a developed country just like Kuwait, UAE, and cultural standards and mindsets alike that of Europe and the US; with allies such as the US, Europe, Japan, Singapore, Brasil and others alike. Is that too horrible to think?

Then comes the LGBT. (I'm sure gonna be extra-racist on this)

I don't have problems with any LGBT person, even though I know hardly something about one, but I feel Pride parades are anything but. I sometimes feel like a whorehotel just broke loose. I mean, are LGBT people proud of this? because I feel it's reinforcing the stereotypes instead of boosting awareness.

And the "It gets better" campaign. I feel it's great, amazing help for bullied people, but why does it center on the LGBT youth? Are other reasons of bullying not important or hip enough to defend? Are any other teenagers not killing temselves for any other reason? I've been bullied heavily in the past, but I learned and grew by myself and I do feel that LGBT people are also able to grow and fend for themselves.

Well, feel free to discuss

(P.S: All of this coming from an Hispanic, straight guy)

[Steve]

I'm hispanic, mexican to be more specific, and I totally hate american pride(the bad kind) the most. Those who claim themselves "patriots" that only bash other people because they aren't "truly" american, whereas "true" americans (going smartass, of course) are those with red/brown skin (unless there were white skinned tribes). One of the greatest assets of the US is the varied amount of cultures it has, so why do we have assholes telling otherwise?. Second, being a mexican, I hate those of my kin that illegally (legally too) enter the US and claim it as their own soil, that's a bad example, and something people like me have to suffer "omg, you are a mexican in the US, you must be illegal and ignorant, go back to your tacos, wetback". If you live in another country then you should at least learn the damn language and respect the culture, aka, deal with it or gtfo.

Then it comes the LGBT thing; thank you good sir or ma'am for advertising your sexuality, but really, there's no need to shove it. I think the parades (village people wise) are a little bit too much.

At any rate, sometimes people just use pride to have a reason to fill their big ego when there's nothing else to argument, I hate it, it's stupid, but yet, we have to deal with it.

[Faisul]

There is no double standard. Being part of a minority and celebrating one's own racial/sexual identity in a minority group is an expression of freedom, not derision of the majority. If you're the type to be offended by a pride parade, you may want to loosen up.

The reason why pasty white dudes can't be in a white pride parade is because, as the majority, and as members of a group who has systematically oppressed all other groups for centuries, it is simply distasteful. Instead of an expression of freedom, it would be an expression of actual or desired dominance over other groups.

As for your other arguments, I'm having real trouble understanding what you're saying - are you implying that putting white extremists 'above' you in some kind of social hierarchy because you fear them makes you racist? No, it just means you're afraid of them. In certain places it's even good sense to be afraid of such people. If you dislike white power groups, you're not racist - you just don't like idiots, which is fine. I don't like idiots.

Concerning bullied LGBT youth, you gotta understand that a significant percentage of LGBT youth are fucking tormented because of their sexual orientation. Like, thrown out of the house, having to turn to prostitution tormented. And come on. Teen suicides are much higher for LGBT kids than in other groups. Of course the LGBT community is going to focus on them over other groups of kids. In many countries, the public sector and its institutions who are supposed to help youths irregardless of sexual orientation have been found to abuse teens who are gay, refuse them food, kicking them out of shelters, the whole deal, and it wasn't because these kids were perverts who tried to mack on unsuspecting kids in the hallway. They were kids whose only crime was having details of their sexual orientation being known by the people who were supposed to be protecting them.

[Fluxy]

I'll say my opinion now; Pride Parades cause a lot of shit. I don't get offended at all by them, but really, they cause shit to a lot of others for a variety of reasons. Most of the time, a group will be saying on some sort of verse, "We want others to understand, and respect us!" And so they proceed to, in other words, shove themselves down the throats of others till they get what they want. THis hardly ever works, and causes attacks to be made. We don't need understanding; Not everyone will be happy with other's life styles. We just need a simple respect to simply say, "You know, I really don't like you for 'blah' reason, but we can co-exist" and that understanding is all we need. The only thing stopping us is people not understanding that world/country wide peace truly -is- impossible.

First, if you're gay, bi, trans, black, hispanic, asian, handicapped... and you're proud of it. You're a hero! People should be like you! You're the perfect example of a human being.

Instead, if you're white, straight, perfectly healthy... and you're proud of it. You're criminal, despicable, a shame to everyone else and you deserve to die on the worst way.

The first is a bit of a stretch, and the second is more so a stretch. Those are rather extreme thoughts overall. Not much more to say there really.

Just because history was mostly against some individuals over non-important superficial things or things one didnt' had any control over the matter doesn't mean any of these "underestimated" people have the right reverse the role (them being the oppresors)

But what about the groups of White, Straight extremists who hate everyone else? Who says Black, Hispanic or LGBT people can't be racist a*holes too? (Which, by experience, I've seen and been told about these examples) Putting those people above you just based on these aspects is just as racist as putting them under you.

Then it's the pride demostrations and the support groups.

People are going to be ignorant, no matter what you do. There is always going to be people, who simply don't like you because you are hispanic, and will constantly despise you because somewhere in him, he thinks you are stealing jobs, and were stupiud enough to have seven kids. This is of course not super common, but there are stil thousands of ignorant thoughts out there and it can't be changed. The issue really more so -are- these pride parades, in my thought.

I don't have problems with any LGBT person, even though I know hardly something about one, but I feel Pride parades are anything but. I sometimes feel like a whorehotel just broke loose. I mean, are LGBT people proud of this? because I feel it's reinforcing the stereotypes instead of boosting awareness.

I don't believe calling it a whore hotel is rather proper by any means, but it is rather flamboyant, yes, because, shocker, they are flamboyant in their sexuality choice. But you are right, because that pretty much is what a pride parade does, but it is for -all- ends of pride parades; Not just sexuality. It only inspires the gap of understanding between the multiple groups of people to become wider and wider. Really, if we didn't have these parades, a good more portion of people would stop being ignorant, or at -least- not be so activly against and go out of their way to change or hurt 'different' people.

And the "It gets better" campaign. I feel it's great, amazing help for bullied people, but why does it center on the LGBT youth? Are other reasons of bullying not important or hip enough to defend? Are any other teenagers not killing temselves for any other reason? I've been bullied heavily in the past, but I learned and grew by myself and I do feel that LGBT people are also able to grow and fend for themselves.

I am sorry, but I find that rather... I dunno what to call that. Why does a chess group only play chess, or a Tennis Team primarially go out for Tennis matches? They're close minded, and could learn to open their horizens. This is what it sounds like you are saying practicaly. The truth is, yes, you are right. More than just homosexual kids get bullied. Everyone, gets bullied. But there are bully support groups practically -everywhere-, and tons of group sessions, and even group therapy sessions for it. Not for just homosexuals, but for everyone. Why does a group go out to tell homosexual kids that 'it's okay'? Because they don't want those kids to grow up confused. There are adults out there, that can't have a healthy relationship because they can't be attracted to women, but they are too scared to be with a guy and Vice Versa. One of my best friend's mother got devorced by her husband, all because for the 15 years they were married, he was too afraid to say "I'm sorry, but I'm gay". That is a big thing, and if he had simply got not encouragment, but support that it is okay to be attracted to be the same sex, that none of the pain of those events would happen.

----

There is no double standard. Being part of a minority and celebrating one's own racial/sexual identity in a minority group is an expression of freedom, not derision of the majority. If you're the type to be offended by a pride parade, you may want to loosen up.

It's funny. They express their freedom, even though everyone has it, and by simply going on parades, they make those that hate them, even more hatful twoards them. It offends the ignorant, and makes the ignorant lash out, which makes them feel even more oppressed, and the cycle continues to make things even worse.

The reason why pasty white dudes can't be in a white pride parade is because, as the majority, and as members of a group who has systematically oppressed all other groups for centuries, it is simply distasteful. Instead of an expression of freedom, it would be an expression of actual or desired dominance over other groups.

Distasteful, maybe so. But lol, expression of what now? You said there are no double standards. Just as easily as they could be doing it to show dominence, so could allllll the other groups.

[unoservix]

as far as like all of us are concerned, a "straight white middle-class male pride" rally would be a complete nonevent and people would react with "you're having a pride rally for being normal?"

which is why straight white middle-class men don't "get" their own "pride rally." instead they as a class get the consolation prizes known as "control of society" and "getting to define what their culture views as normal"

[Faisul]

as far as like all of us are concerned, a "straight white middle-class male pride" rally would be a complete nonevent and people would react with "you're having a pride rally for being normal?"

which is why straight white middle-class men don't "get" their own "pride rally." instead they as a class get the consolation prizes known as "control of society"

Hahaha, yes. The above is pretty much my exact thoughts on the subject, condensed.

When I said dominance, I should've elaborated. A more appropriate way of putting it would be 'flaunting their control of society and rubbing it in.' Pride rallies don't, they simply say 'hey we're allowed to be here and have fun, so let's do just that' where 40 or so years ago they'd be carted off by the po-po.

[Xortberg]

I'm going to organize a pasty white guy parade. It ought to be fun.

[Faisul]

Remember to bring printouts of your stock options. And a latte.

[Harlow]

There is no double standard. Being part of a minority and celebrating one's own racial/sexual identity in a minority group is an expression of freedom, not derision of the majority. If you're the type to be offended by a pride parade, you may want to loosen up.

I'm not offended by people demostrating their pride of a minority group. What I don't like is how some individuals of those groups feel like it's their turn to be the rasict ones against others.

And about LGBT pride parades, Imagine yourself seeing that kind of parade for anything else that's common to you (e.g: A Norwegian parade. You're Norwegian right?). How can you be proud or identified of a Norwegian exposing his/herself or acting lascively through the whole city proclaming they're the same as you?

The reason why pasty white dudes can't be in a white pride parade is because, as the majority, and as members of a group who has systematically oppressed all other groups for centuries, it is simply distasteful. Instead of an expression of freedom, it would be an expression of actual or desired dominance over other groups.

I don't see any bad on white people being proud of themselves or having a day for themselves (of course, without offending any other race). I have seen Hispanic and Black pride demonstrations that are both distateful and totally denigrant and racist towards other races, including other mnorities. Saying a race can't be racist it's racist.

Concerning bullied LGBT youth, you gotta understand that a significant percentage of LGBT youth are fucking tormented because of their sexual orientation. Like, thrown out of the house, having to turn to prostitution tormented. And come on. Teen suicides are much higher for LGBT kids than in other groups. Of course the LGBT community is going to focus on them over other groups of kids. In many countries, the public sector and its institutions who are supposed to help youths irregardless of sexual orientation have been found to abuse teens who are gay, refuse them food, kicking them out of shelters, the whole deal, and it wasn't because these kids were perverts who tried to mack on unsuspecting kids in the hallway. They were kids whose only crime was having details of their sexual orientation being known by the people who were supposed to be protecting them.

Yes, I do know about all of the torment some LGBT teens go through, but a lot of other teens also go through that kind of social issues. I've also seen there's this "purple day" for LGBT bullied kids. Having an entire month for bullying awareness (October 2011) why do LGBT kids need to have their special day? Are you insinuating other reasons kids get bullied aren't as important?

The first is a bit of a stretch, and the second is more so a stretch. Those are rather extreme thoughts overall. Not much more to say there really.

Yes, I know it's a radical view, but it's for making other see by point a bit easier.

I don't believe calling it a whore hotel is rather proper by any means, but it is rather flamboyant, yes, because, shocker, they are flamboyant in their sexuality choice. But you are right, because that pretty much is what a pride parade does, but it is for -all- ends of pride parades; Not just sexuality. It only inspires the gap of understanding between the multiple groups of people to become wider and wider. Really, if we didn't have these parades, a good more portion of people would stop being ignorant, or at -least- not be so activly against and go out of their way to change or hurt 'different' people.

Gay/Lesbian =/= Flamboyant, Voyeurism, Perversion or any other sexual-related madness. But I feel that in some pride parades mgiht be counterproducent, since straight people only see gay people dancing around, exposing themselves and being lewd and, as an effect, relate LGBT people to that kind of behavior.

[Xortberg]

Yes, I do know about all of the torment some LGBT teens go through, but a lot of other teens also go through that kind of social issues. I've also seen there's this "purple day" for LGBT bullied kids. Having an entire month for bullying awareness (October 2011) why do LGBT kids need to have their special day? Are you insinuating other reasons kids get bullied aren't as important?

No, but he may be implying that the bullying received for being homo is generally more vicious and widespread than most other single bullying causes, and can cause much more lasting damage. I like the part where you put words in his mouth.

[Fluxy]

Yes, I do know about all of the torment some LGBT teens go through, but a lot of other teens also go through that kind of social issues. I've also seen there's this "purple day" for LGBT bullied kids. Having an entire month for bullying awareness (October 2011) why do LGBT kids need to have their special day? Are you insinuating other reasons kids get bullied aren't as important?

I am sorry, but I find that rather... I dunno what to call that. Why does a chess group only play chess, or a Tennis Team primarially go out for Tennis matches? They're close minded, and could learn to open their horizens. This is what it sounds like you are saying practicaly. The truth is, yes, you are right. More than just homosexual kids get bullied. Everyone, gets bullied. But there are bully support groups practically -everywhere-, and tons of group sessions, and even group therapy sessions for it. Not for just homosexuals, but for everyone. Why does a group go out to tell homosexual kids that 'it's okay'? Because they don't want those kids to grow up confused. There are adults out there, that can't have a healthy relationship because they can't be attracted to women, but they are too scared to be with a guy and Vice Versa. One of my best friend's mother got devorced by her husband, all because for the 15 years they were married, he was too afraid to say "I'm sorry, but I'm gay". That is a big thing, and if he had simply got not encouragment, but support that it is okay to be attracted to be the same sex, that none of the pain of those events would happen.

[Drasiana]

And about LGBT pride parades, Imagine yourself seeing that kind of parade for anything else that's common to you (e.g: A Norwegian parade. You're Norwegian right?). How can you be proud or identified of a Norwegian exposing his/herself or acting lascively through the whole city proclaming they're the same as you?

Wait, what? Most countries have this, dude. For example, Independance Day, Canada Day, and in Norway, Constitution Day.

My hometown Canada Day parade almost made it a tradition to have a streaker. The type of person who would look at that and go OMG ALL CANADIANS ARE GROSS INDECENT STREAKERS is known affectionately as a "dumbass".

And yes, purple day exists for LGBT teens. Why? Because homophobia is an easier problem to pinpoint than just "um bullies exist". Yes, people are bullied for pretty much everything, and most schools hold days and policies to try to prevent this as well. But kids can be bullied over anything, sometimes for no real reason at all. It's an amorphous issue that spawns from the nature of teenagers to be as douchey as possible.

However, homophobia is easy enough to target because it simply relates to the issue of "gay people are icky". As Faisul has quite knowledgeably said, there are horrible issues faced by LGBT youth. Being kicked out of your own home because of who you love is not quite the same thing as "someone at school said my shoes were ugly ". It's not just supporting kids against other kids, it's supporting them alongside a society that has been taught to hate them, even as far as there to be laws forbidding them from marrying or otherwise expressing their love. There's no laws forbidding rights from ginger kids.

And this is the same reason why having a middle-class white dude parade is rediculous. Gay pride parades and other forms of minority celebration aren't simply "flaunting" themselves; they're forms of protest. They are saying that despite the mistreatment they have recieved for who they are, they will not back down in striving for the ability to be safe within their own skin within the country they are meant to call home.

Keep in mind, not all pride parades are the same as what you see in the media. As the Occupy protests have demonstrated well enough, the media just loves focusing on the absolute weirdest people they can find. Sure, you might see a roller-skating man wearing a glittery thong and angel wings at a gay pride demonstration, but you also might see people like this or this or this. You know, perfectly normal people who just want to raise their voices over something they feel passionately about. And you know, even if someone with a penis does want to get dressed up as Cleopatra, why not? They're expressing their gender identity and having fun with it. To say "ew you're just flaunting it" is pretty much just saying "ew, I don't like what you are and I don't want to see it", which is the exact kind of thing these protests are against. Here's a comic to contextualize this, just get past the "meh" animu artses.

Sure, it can be annoying if someone doesn't shut up about it. I had this acquaintence in high school that decided she was bisexual, and from then on everything out of her mouth was talking about how bi she was. Now, my group of friends at the time was gay-friendly, bi, or at least in the questioning stage, so none of us really made a big deal out of it...because it wasn't a big deal to us. But she was the type of girl that just wanted attention over every tiny detail of who she was or what she did. Whether or not she was or wasn't bi was not the issue, it was the issue of her being an annoying prat. This was never in the context of gay rights protest, either, it would be like "how are you today" "OH, STILL BISEXUAL".

This is not the same thing as my friend simply mentioning his boyfriend and someone going OMG STOP FLAUNTING HOW GAY YOU ARE.

Applying this to racism, it's similar in that white people in America aren't really being oppressed by anyone and they don't really have anything to protest in terms of equality, since "white, middle-class Christian" is the normal standard here. It is a bizarre situation in terms of what and what isn't racist, as well. On deviantArt, some drama happened over a (decidedly non-racist) dude I know creating a "White Pride" group just to prove a point, saying only white people were allowed. Of course a shitstorm occurred, but there were several other groups on deviantArt that only allowed Asians, or Blacks, or Native Americans. This would...sort of be understandable if it was in a regional sense, as in a group for artists from Tokyo or London or something, but it was based purely on race. The only discrimination that occurred was when white people tried to do the same thing. I do think it's a little silly how white people cannot take pride in accomplishments in their history, and it's not like white people have not been oppressed either (granted, usually by other white people), but then again it seems like more of a thing that should be history based on region and country rather than skin colour. I can be supportive of black people, black people can be supportive of hispanic people, Asians can be supportive of white people, so on and so forth. They key thing to remember here is that we are all PEOPLE who deserve equal treatment, and usually those who are protesting are those who have not recieved it.

[Asper Sarnoff]

Dras pretty much sums up my thoughts there.

Everyone deserve the right to be proud in who and what they are, but should never let that overshadow the fact that we are all equal.

[Harlow]

And yes, purple day exists for LGBT teens. Why? Because homophobia is an easier problem to pinpoint than just "um bullies exist". Yes, people are bullied for pretty much everything, and most schools hold days and policies to try to prevent this as well. But kids can be bullied over anything, sometimes for no real reason at all. It's an amorphous issue that spawns from the nature of teenagers to be as douchey as possible.

However, homophobia is easy enough to target because it simply relates to the issue of "gay people are icky". As Faisul has quite knowledgeably said, there are horrible issues faced by LGBT youth. Being kicked out of your own home because of who you love is not quite the same thing as "someone at school said my shoes were ugly ". It's not just supporting kids against other kids, it's supporting them alongside a society that has been taught to hate them, even as far as there to be laws forbidding them from marrying or otherwise expressing their love. There's no laws forbidding rights from ginger kids.

And this is the same reason why having a middle-class white dude parade is rediculous. Gay pride parades and other forms of minority celebration aren't simply "flaunting" themselves; they're forms of protest. They are saying that despite the mistreatment they have recieved for who they are, they will not back down in striving for the ability to be safe within their own skin within the country they are meant to call home.

Keep in mind, not all pride parades are the same as what you see in the media. As the Occupy protests have demonstrated well enough, the media just loves focusing on the absolute weirdest people they can find. Sure, you might see a roller-skating man wearing a glittery thong and angel wings at a gay pride demonstration, but you also might see people like this or this or this. You know, perfectly normal people who just want to raise their voices over something they feel passionately about. And you know, even if someone with a penis does want to get dressed up as Cleopatra, why not? They're expressing their gender identity and having fun with it. To say "ew you're just flaunting it" is pretty much just saying "ew, I don't like what you are and I don't want to see it", which is the exact kind of thing these protests are against. Here's a comic to contextualize this, just get past the "meh" animu artses.

Sure, it can be annoying if someone doesn't shut up about it. I had this acquaintence in high school that decided she was bisexual, and from then on everything out of her mouth was talking about how bi she was. Now, my group of friends at the time was gay-friendly, bi, or at least in the questioning stage, so none of us really made a big deal out of it...because it wasn't a big deal to us. But she was the type of girl that just wanted attention over every tiny detail of who she was or what she did. Whether or not she was or wasn't bi was not the issue, it was the issue of her being an annoying prat. This was never in the context of gay rights protest, either, it would be like "how are you today" "OH, STILL BISEXUAL".

This is not the same thing as my friend simply mentioning his boyfriend and someone going OMG STOP FLAUNTING HOW GAY YOU ARE.

Applying this to racism, it's similar in that white people in America aren't really being oppressed by anyone and they don't really have anything to protest in terms of equality, since "white, middle-class Christian" is the normal standard here. It is a bizarre situation in terms of what and what isn't racist, as well. On deviantArt, some drama happened over a (decidedly non-racist) dude I know creating a "White Pride" group just to prove a point, saying only white people were allowed. Of course a shitstorm occurred, but there were several other groups on deviantArt that only allowed Asians, or Blacks, or Native Americans. This would...sort of be understandable if it was in a regional sense, as in a group for artists from Tokyo or London or something, but it was based purely on race. The only discrimination that occurred was when white people tried to do the same thing. I do think it's a little silly how white people cannot take pride in accomplishments in their history, and it's not like white people have not been oppressed either (granted, usually by other white people), but then again it seems like more of a thing that should be history based on region and country rather than skin colour. I can be supportive of black people, black people can be supportive of hispanic people, Asians can be supportive of white people, so on and so forth. They key thing to remember here is that we are all PEOPLE who deserve equal treatment, and usually those who are protesting are those who have not recieved it.

I know LGBT kids can have a rough to rougher time than other kids, but I've seen that some people close themselves and only think that LGBT kids are the bullied ones, effectively ignoring other cases that may be as severe. I'm just saying, that if there's bullying awareness, keep it generalized for every bullied kid and don't give anyone special treatment. I'm sure that any anti-homophobia awareness movement would be very glad to take LGBT bullying in special consent.

I do agree that there's great normal people that go to those parades to have their voices heard. Cool. What I don't agree is that just because one can perfectly go naked or dress extremely flamboyantly on these parades doesn't mean they should. As you said, "They are saying that despite the mistreatment they have recieved for who they are, they will not back down in striving for the ability to be safe within their own skin within the country they are meant to call home"...

And I don't think they are transmitting that message correctly if they go like Halloween enthusiasts. Those three examples you gave were I feel, the right way of comunicating the message you said.

And the last part. I'd respond to you, Aren't minorities or people from other sexual orietations capable of being racist or a*holes? One has to stop victimizing this kind of people because, in a way, it's racist too.

[Drasiana]

I know LGBT kids can have a rough to rougher time than other kids, but I've seen that some people close themselves and only think that LGBT kids are the bullied ones, effectively ignoring other cases that may be as severe. I'm just saying, that if there's bullying awareness, keep it generalized for every bullied kid and don't give anyone special treatment. I'm sure that any anti-homophobia awareness movement would be very glad to take LGBT bullying in special consent.

It isn't "special treatment", it's focusing on a certain aspect of bullying that can be more tangibly dealt with. Kids always have been and always will be bullied, and it's impossible to prevent that. Kids are constantly taught to be nice to others, through media and through school, but just saying "be nice" is not effective for some people and beyond that there's very little you can actually do when the reasons for bullying are boundless. Some kids are mean to others for no reason. However, homosexuality IS a reason.

I do agree that there's great normal people that go to those parades to have their voices heard. Cool. What I don't agree is that just because one can perfectly go naked or dress extremely flamboyantly on these parades doesn't mean they should. As you said, "They are saying that despite the mistreatment they have recieved for who they are, they will not back down in striving for the ability to be safe within their own skin within the country they are meant to call home"...

And I don't think they are transmitting that message correctly if they go like Halloween enthusiasts. Those three examples you gave were I feel, the right way of comunicating the message you said.

But you are assuming here that everyone who goes to a pride parade does dress up like that, when my point was that most of them actually don't. And why "shouldn't" they? It's an expression of sexuality. Don't forget that the T in LGBT stands for "trans", so there's no reason to get bent out of shape when you see someone who is biologically a man dressed in traditionally female clothing at a parade. Do not, also, forget, that a lot of these people are just trying to have fun.

And the last part. I'd respond to you, Aren't minorities or people from other sexual orietations capable of being racist or a*holes? One has to stop victimizing this kind of people because, in a way, it's racist too.

They can be, but that does not mean they are the majority, or that there is anything racist/heterophobic about their simple request to become equal. That's like people percieving all feminists as ugly man-hating bra-burning biker lesbians, when that in itself is a direct contradiction to the goals of feminism (equality).

And honestly, many people are not playing victim, they are victims, and that is the very reason they are protesting.

[unoservix]

well Harlow you sure devolved into the good ol' tu quoque pretty fast

[Harlow]

But you are assuming here that everyone who goes to a pride parade does dress up like that, when my point was that most of them actually don't. And why "shouldn't" they? It's an expression of sexuality. Don't forget that the T in LGBT stands for "trans", so there's no reason to get bent out of shape when you see someone who is biologically a man dressed in traditionally female clothing at a parade. Do not, also, forget, that a lot of these people are just trying to have fun.

If anyone's trans, fine. They can go dressed like a woman, but do so reasonably, that you're trying to get your sexual orientation respected. All I say.

They can be, but that does not mean they are the majority, or that there is anything racist/heterophobic about their simple request to become equal. That's like people percieving all feminists as ugly man-hating bra-burning biker lesbians, when that in itself is a direct contradiction to the goals of feminism (equality).

And honestly, many people are not playing victim, they are victims, and that is the very reason they are protesting.

Of course they're not majority, like the majority of whites aren't racist, like the majority of straights arent' homophobic, etcetera. Also, I'm sure their requests of equal treatment don't mean any hatred. The issue is that one can be black, hispanic, LGBT, and that's often used as an "excuse" or a "shield" for any behavior defects. "Having problems getting your bratty, snobby personality shine through with all those people correcting you? Yell "racist!" or "homophobic!""

[Drasiana]

If anyone's trans, fine. They can go dressed like a woman, but do so reasonably, that you're trying to get your sexual orientation respected. All I say.

But would you have a problem with a biological woman dressing the same way?

Of course they're not majority, like the majority of whites aren't racist, like the majority of straights arent' homophobic, etcetera. Also, I'm sure their requests of equal treatment don't mean any hatred. The issue is that one can be black, hispanic, LGBT, and that's often used as an "excuse" or a "shield" for any behavior defects. "Having problems getting your bratty, snobby personality shine through with all those people correcting you? Yell "racist!" or "homophobic!""

But that is not an issue that stems from them being of a certain race or of a certain orientation, it stems from them being an annoying asshole, which we can all agree on...well, being annoying. Saying "man I hate it when gay people throw pride festivals" is a lot different from "man I hate it when people act superior to others based on x". And really, if it exists, someone will use it to try to make them look better than you. It sucks, but you're fine in calling them out on their bullshit.

Saying "I am proud to be gay" is not the same as saying "gay people are better".

[Harlow]

But would you have a problem with a biological woman dressing the same way?

But that is not an issue that stems from them being of a certain race or of a certain orientation, it stems from them being an annoying asshole, which we can all agree on...well, being annoying. Saying "man I hate it when gay people throw pride festivals" is a lot different from "man I hate it when people act superior to others based on x". And really, if it exists, someone will use it to try to make them look better than you. It sucks, but you're fine in calling them out on their bullshit.Saying "I am proud to be gay" is not the same as saying "gay people are better".

It's not that it's a problem, it's that, if one's trying to raise awareness over such an important issue like you said, how people will take them seriously?

And I do agree with you the second part

[Drasiana]

It's not that it's a problem, it's that, if one's trying to raise awareness over such an important issue like you said, how people will take them seriously?

People don't take them seriously on the fact that it's a "man" wearing a "woman"'s clothing. Whether it's a business suit or a Vegas girl getup, people will go LOL TRANNIES.

Maybe you find some of the more over-the-top protesters silly, fine, but you cannot judge the majority of protesters based on the actions of a few, and it's silly in its own right to claim that some people are protesting "the wrong way". They are doing what they are doing because for whatever reason it is important that they express themselves that way. Lots of people may think that all gay rights activists are crazy Lady Gaga imitators waving around dildo wands, but part of that fault is within the media's choice to focus on them and not the more numerous "normal people" present.

[TCPeppyTc]

For all you people in your twenties or maybe 30s....

Isnt it true that when you were in middle/ high school 80s and 90s saying "fag" and actually speaking ill of homosexuals was much more acceptable? I remember it was when I was little. In my experience at least, kids didnt become tolerant of gays and say " Thats just the way they are" until about 2002-3

[Vy'drach]

For all you people in your twenties or maybe 30s....

Isnt it true that when you were in middle/ high school 80s and 90s saying "fag" and actually speaking ill of homosexuals was much more acceptable? I remember it was when I was little. In my experience at least, kids didnt become tolerant of gays and say " Thats just the way they are" until about 2002-3

You're implying that it stopped or got better. Been a couple years since I was in high school, but all through my schooling it got progressively worse, not better.

[TCPeppyTc]

How old are you vrydach? Loving the pic btw. Maybe you live(d) in a more conservative state/region than I do. I grew up and live in a suburb of Minneapolis, MN. I think in 2002-3, you were hearing about gay marriage being legalized more, and maybe that fostered acceptance. My suburb was kind of a liberal one, and kids got older and more mature and were thus maybe able to acept gays more. Im sure it is different for different people though.

But this being said, 2011 is the best year for Gays in America ever, just because of peoples gradual knowledge and acceptance of the way they are.

[myu]

I don't see any bad on white people being proud of themselves or having a day for themselves (of course, without offending any other race). I have seen Hispanic and Black pride demonstrations that are both distateful and totally denigrant and racist towards other races, including other mnorities. Saying a race can't be racist it's racist.

Pretty much anything can become distasteful, it's not just limited to parades or demonstrations. Anyway, if White folks wanted to have a pride parade there's nothing from stopping them. As has been mentioned, it's kind of "normal." Sure, there could be a Normal People pride parade, but if you feel normal, chances are you haven't felt ostracized and don't feel the need to make people aware of your situation because there is none.

Yes, I do know about all of the torment some LGBT teens go through, but a lot of other teens also go through that kind of social issues. I've also seen there's this "purple day" for LGBT bullied kids. Having an entire month for bullying awareness (October 2011) why do LGBT kids need to have their special day? Are you insinuating other reasons kids get bullied aren't as important?

That's like asking why people who('ve) had/have cancer need an awareness month. Of course being bullied is an important issue, no matter what the reason. But, as Dras has already said, it's a much more specific cause of bullying which is easier to pin down.

Gay/Lesbian =/= Flamboyant, Voyeurism, Perversion or any other sexual-related madness. But I feel that in some pride parades mgiht be counterproducent, since straight people only see gay people dancing around, exposing themselves and being lewd and, as an effect, relate LGBT people to that kind of behavior.

They also associate LGBT persons with that kind of behavior because it's, you know, generally how they're portrayed in media/entertainment. I don't think you're taking into consideration how much the film industry shapes some peoples' perceptions. You're also assuming that all straight people view LBGT people the exact same way, which is terribly untrue.

[Drasiana]

TCPeppy, you're going like...way off-topic.

But yes...Myu +1