CrypticQuery Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Evidently canon in the Star Fox universe works just like an actual cannon; you load it with shit-tons of random bits here and there (i.e. Adventures, Assault), set it on fire, and it will explode. This, in turn, horribly maims any storyline in its path (Command). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 but "killing Pigma, playing out Oikonny's rebellion, killing/maiming Pepper and totally reversing Star Wolf's role" is all "canon" now, to the extent that you can even talk about a "canon" in Star Fox (and the idea that people try is one that fills me with all kinds of mirth) so you're just going to have to deal with it. what's "canon" in Star Fox is what the people who write Star Fox say is "canon." if what they say is inconsistent, well, you can either hold your breath waiting for the game that turns all your fan theories into "canon" and reboots the whole story, or you can try to work out the inconsistencies as much as possible. ...canon means "what happened in the story" and uh no, I never said any of it didn't or are related to fan-theories at all (because yeah, Pigma exploded, Pepper was wounded to the extent that Peppy had to replace him in Command and Star Wolf was suddenly good). Please feel free to point out how this post makes any sense in response to anything I said. A refresher of what I said, by the way: DZ said that Assault didn't really effect the overall storyline, I said it did by pointing out things that happened in Assault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Assault took a lot of GREAT IDEAS and then FLUSHED THEM ALL DOWN THE SHITTER and despite doing this relentlessly ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING FOR THE OVERALL QUALITY OF THE FRANCHISE. srsly, Assault fucked over both Andrew and Pigma (two characters with lodes of story potential), at best made Star Wolf frenemies and at worst pussy-footed them, essentially removed General Pepper from the canon so we could shoe horn Peppy in his place, which also accomplishes nothing, but not before trying to fuck over Peppy too. It's funny, really, how bad of a hole Assault drove the series into. The worst SFAd ever did was give us Krystal fanboys, which at least provided myself and Milky a source of entertainment for half a decade. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fox Runner Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 I believe we have enough canon discussions going on in a bunch of other threads, can we get back to the discussion of Retro Studios? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 yeah I'm not sure what happened here, there seems to be lots of topic crossover nowadays um so retro despite the fact that these things typically let everyone down i'm actually fairly certain this actually might be the mythical NEW STARFAC any theories on what else it COULD be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I never said the story in SFAs was great. It DOES have some serious issues. But, given the rest of the series, I really don't see why SFAs was a canonical disaster. It didn't improve anything, but I really don't see how it damaged anything. In fact, some of it's ideas were intriguing. Star Wolf, for instance. I wouldn't say their role was reversed. Yes, they did end up helping Star Fox in the end, but I could see they tried to make it more out of self-preservation than any genuine nice feelings about Star Fox. They didn't pull it off very well, but I don't see it as damaging, given that story has always been a bit of an afterthought with this series. Pigma. Pigma was a minor character to begin with. I don't see how his death would have a negative impact on the canon going forward. The role he played in Star Wolf really could be played by any character, and his role in the backstory, well, is the past. Pepper. What happened to Pepper was not really gone into after the crash. The idea that he died came from SFC. I will give you that Oikonny's rebellion was pretty meaningless in the story. I think the goal was to have him appear int he game somehow. But, throughout the series there are meaningless events. Character Personalities. I seem to recall the characters' personalities changing every game, so I think this is more of a problem with the canon as a whole than just SFAs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Pigma is the guy who sent James to his grave/space whale/black hole/whatever. He deserved a little more reaction and influence in the story other than Fox going "Stop, Pigma! Dang!" and then becoming a space zombie. Fucking up Pepper was the stepping stone that led to replacing him in Command. It was just another cheap, ineffective shot at making the players feel emotional. While it is true the overall plot of SFAs is really nothing super-terrible (its unoriginal but so was SF64), its really just how many little things they fudged up that bothers me. Like I said: Assault tried all these different ideas and never really went anywhere or accomplished anything with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psy_commando Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Pigma is the guy who sent James to his grave/space whale/black hole/whatever. Actually, pigma doesn't have anything to do with the black hole/space whale scenario :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Pretty much. It effected the canon more than Adventures did, which really only added the eight year timeskip and introduced Krystal (who, while a weak character, hasn't had any impact on the story whatsoever; which is in itself its own flaw but whatever). It didn't go around killing/injuring series regulars and was contained to a single planet. If you count FBF under the Adventures umbrella, too, then it's really one of the only instances of actual character development in the series (Falco and Katt). Yes, the character personalities are inconsistant in every game. So? The fact that Assault gave no fuck because the other kids were doing it doesn't make it somehow okay. Pigma, Andrew and Pepper were three of the biggest plot springboards in the game (being the reason for James' death, Andross' heir and the guy who actually makes you do stuff) and Assault did its best at getting rid of them as soon as possible, the former two "permanently" replaced on Star Wolf for the random dead weight that is Panther. Sure, Pepper didn't actually die in Assault, but it justified the implication that he did in Command (I actually liked the scene in Assault, but this is a discussion on "things that happened that effected the overall story", which this did). It alters the canon more than Adventures did. It doesn't as much as Command, but Command has the benefit of not actually being canon until the theoretical next game picks an ending or invalidates it completely. Anyways, BACK TO WHAT THE TOPIC IS REALLY ABOUT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Actually, pigma doesn't have anything to do with the black hole/space whale scenario I COMBINE MY CANONS TO MAKE THE PERFECT CONFLICTING FANON. /DEALWITHIT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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